Phil Rogers: Arizona first wanted BA, KW offered Young instead

[TornLabrum]

Originally Posted by Grzegorz

Lip,

Enlighten me on the whole tape watching process. Is watching tape on the opposing pitcher a mandatory team event, or is watching tape on the opposing pitcher conducted with the hitting coach and the player?

Or perhaps it is a less structured process?

Let me put it to you this way, even if watching tape is "optional":

You're a rookie. You've seen minimal playing time around the league. What do you think you're expected to do?

[voodoochile]

Originally Posted by TornLabrum

Let me put it to you this way, even if watching tape is "optional":

You're a rookie. You've seen minimal playing time around the league. What do you think you're expected to do?

Well after a hard night's drinking, reruns of Laverne and Shirley sounds about right. Throw in some Twinkees and Gatorade and 'sol good...

[Lip Man 1]

Greg:

Hal's got it spot on. Watching tape is 'optional' but expected (kind of like 'voluntary' off season drills in the NFL.)

Making matters worse is that if memory serves, the Indians pitcher that night was a rookie or someone with very little time in the bigs. He was basically an unknown.

Instead of watching tape to at least get a sense of what the kid throws, how it breaks and so forth, two Sox players (the story said both were newcomers) were watching TV.

If guys like Konerko, Thome and Dye watch tape regularly with all that they have accomplished in the major leagues, one would think kids would be watching it as well.

Like I said I'm sure this got back to Ozzie and figured into his decisions. If he thought BA was 'unprepared' my guess is that he wasn't going to play him. Coupled with the other rumors about going out at night and things, it didn't paint him in the best light.

Lip

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

Greg:

Hal's got it spot on. Watching tape is 'optional' but expected (kind of like 'voluntary' off season drills in the NFL.)

Making matters worse is that if memory serves, the Indians pitcher that night was a rookie or someone with very little time in the bigs. He was basically an unknown.

Instead of watching tape to at least get a sense of what the kid throws, how it breaks and so forth, two Sox players (the story said both were newcomers) were watching TV.

If guys like Konerko, Thome and Dye watch tape regularly with all that they have accomplished in the major leagues, one would think kids would be watching it as well.

Like I said I'm sure this got back to Ozzie and figured into his decisions. If he thought BA was 'unprepared' my guess is that he wasn't going to play him. Coupled with the other rumors about going out at night and things, it didn't paint him in the best light.

Lip

all of that stuff, while bad, does not give Rob Mackowiack or Darin Erstad the right to play every day in CF, both hurting the team on the field and hurting the development of the team in the future. I'm not a BA lover but anyone can see that those guys are not every day CFs.

[eriqjaffe]

Originally Posted by Jerome

all of that stuff, while bad, does not give Rob Mackowiack or Darin Erstad the right to play every day in CF, both hurting the team on the field and hurting the development of the team in the future. I'm not a BA lover but anyone can see that those guys are not every day CFs.

To be fair, Erstad is actually a very good center fielder, he's just injury prone. Mackowiak was playing out of position, and was simply overmatched.

[Grzegorz]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

Greg:

Hal's got it spot on. Watching tape is 'optional' but expected (kind of like 'voluntary' off season drills in the NFL.)

Making matters worse is that if memory serves, the Indians pitcher that night was a rookie or someone with very little time in the bigs. He was basically an unknown.

Instead of watching tape to at least get a sense of what the kid throws, how it breaks and so forth, two Sox players (the story said both were newcomers) were watching TV.

If guys like Konerko, Thome and Dye watch tape regularly with all that they have accomplished in the major leagues, one would think kids would be watching it as well.

Like I said I'm sure this got back to Ozzie and figured into his decisions. If he thought BA was 'unprepared' my guess is that he wasn't going to play him. Coupled with the other rumors about going out at night and things, it didn't paint him in the best light.

Lip

Can tapes be watched on personal time?

[JB98]

Originally Posted by Jerome

all of that stuff, while bad, does not give Rob Mackowiack or Darin Erstad the right to play every day in CF, both hurting the team on the field and hurting the development of the team in the future. I'm not a BA lover but anyone can see that those guys are not every day CFs.

No question, but we haven't had an everyday CF on this team at any point in the last two years. And Ozzie has to put *somebody* out there.

[Brian26]

This falls under the "for what its worth category" and the "take it with a grain of salt" department at the same time.

Coppock and Levine interviewed Mike Rizzo on Saturday morning during their Talking Baseball Show. Rizzo is the assistant GM for the Nationals and used to be the head of scouting for Arizona (up until mid-2006).

The focus of the interview was first on the Cubs and Soriano (Coppock claimed Soriano has the quickest hands in baseball). The latter part of the interviewed turned to Chris Young.

Rizzo claims that Arizona had targeted Chris Young during the 2005 season and had wanted him all along. He said the goal of a good scouting program is to discover guys in other systems before the secret is out, long before they're on magazine covers and playing in Futures games.

Levine's last question, point blank, was, "Is it true that Arizona asked for Brian Anderson first and was told that he was unavailable?" Rizzo flat-out denied it.

Take that for what its worth. Notwithstanding tampering rules, there's probably not much for Rizzo to gain at this point by admitting he wanted Anderson if that really is the case. He sounded convincing when he was talking about Chris Young, but, again, that could be revisionist history too. It was a good interview.

[DumpJerry]

Originally Posted by Brian26

This falls under the "for what its worth category" and the "take it with a grain of salt" department at the same time.

Coppock and Levine interviewed Mike Rizzo on Saturday morning during their Talking Baseball Show. Rizzo is the assistant GM for the Nationals and used to be the head of scouting for Arizona (up until mid-2006).

The focus of the interview was first on the Cubs and Soriano (Coppock claimed Soriano has the quickest hands in baseball). The latter part of the interviewed turned to Chris Young.

Rizzo claims that Arizona had targeted Chris Young during the 2005 season and had wanted him all along. He said the goal of a good scouting program is to discover guys in other systems before the secret is out, long before they're on magazine covers and playing in Futures games.

Levine's last question, point blank, was, "Is it true that Arizona asked for Brian Anderson first and was told that he was unavailable?" Rizzo flat-out denied it.

Take that for what its worth. Notwithstanding tampering rules, there's probably not much for Rizzo to gain at this point by admitting he wanted Anderson if that really is the case. He sounded convincing when he was talking about Chris Young, but, again, that could be revisionist history too. It was a good interview.

This account is credible. If the D-Backs were asking for Young at the time of the deal, I don't see how asking for Anderson instead would be tampering. Also, what's in it for Rizzo to alter the facts? It's not like Anderson's career has been light years ahead of Young's and he would look like a fool for picking Young over Anderson.

Kenny (and I assume all other GMs) look at other teams' farm systems for hidden nuggets they would like to pick off. While It would have been nice to have Young's potential in our stable, I'm not complaining given what we received for him.

[fquaye149]

Originally Posted by DumpJerry

This account is credible. If the D-Backs were asking for Young at the time of the deal, I don't see how asking for Anderson instead would be tampering. Also, what's in it for Rizzo to alter the facts? It's not like Anderson's career has been light years ahead of Young's and he would look like a fool for picking Young over Anderson.

Kenny (and I assume all other GMs) look at other teams' farm systems for hidden nuggets they would like to pick off. While It would have been nice to have Young's potential in our stable, I'm not complaining given what we received for him.

the issue of tampering would be if, when asked NOW if he had wanted anderson instead of young, rizzo would have said yes.

if he HAD done that, it would be tampering because it would be a GM implying that he wants a player. this was given as one reason why we might CONCEIVABLY be doubtful of rizzo as a source in terms of whether the d-backs asked for Anderson over Young....but a reason that is likely discarded