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  #16  
Old 09-07-2007, 12:48 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Where is Mark Prior these days?

Don't undestimate the ability of the Orioles and Pirates to completely quit these last 3 weeks and pass us up in the #1 choice Derby. And let those bum teams quit like that. I think we'll end up drafting #4
Nah, at worst we'll hang on to the No. 2 spot. We start Owens, Richar, Erstad, Gonzalez and Uribe everyday. We got this locked up.
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  #17  
Old 09-07-2007, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Randar68 View Post
Yep. I bet the Sox will have to give a major league contract to whoever they draft as well, so I expect they will stick with a college player.
And I can't blame them one bit - I wouldn't give a HS pitcher a Major League contract - PERIOD.
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  #18  
Old 09-07-2007, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jabrch View Post
And I can't blame them one bit - I wouldn't give a HS pitcher a Major League contract - PERIOD.
Provide one good reason for that.

How is a HS pitcher with enough talent to successfully compete in professional baseball going to benefit more from playing against weaker competition?

Besides, if you were a HS pitcher with enough talent to be named a top 3 prospect in the MLB draft and you were concerned about your health and career length, would you rather go into a college atmosphere with college coaches that emphasize competition first and player protection second OR would you rather go into pro ball with a major league hired coaching staff where protecting a player and ensuring the health of a player is of the highest priority? Also, why wouldn't you rather be in a pro organization where they would be more likely to change your mechanics/clean up your delivery if there are concerns there?

The argument seems to be generally that high school pitchers pitch less innings than college pitchers so college pitchers have proven their health. But that doesn't always make sense because you see some of these kids come out of college and you see their mechanics and you have to wonder, if this certain player had went right into pro ball and had some changes made, how much stress would have been avoided by taking that route?

Pitchers from college can blow out their arms too. Even though certain players have better chances than others, the chances of any drafted player making a big impact in the major leagues is small for everyone, especially if it is a pitcher. If the Sox are going to draft at the top they need to take the best available player, peroid. High school or college doesn't matter. They're most likely going to have to give out a major league contract anyway so they need to go after the best out there. If not, someone needs to get fired.
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  #19  
Old 09-08-2007, 01:48 AM
Man Soo Lee Man Soo Lee is offline
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Originally Posted by UserNameBlank View Post
Provide one good reason for that.
If you give a guy a major league contract, he goes on the 40-man roster immediately. A player drafted out of high school would be out of options at age 21-22, forcing the team to keep him in the majors regardless of his development. He's more likely to be rushed and waste one or more of the six years he's under team control before he's ready to compete.

If you're going to give a major league contract to a high schooler, he'd better be special.
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  #20  
Old 09-08-2007, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jabrch View Post
Anyone know if he actually could play SS?

He sounds like the consensus "best player available" in 2008 - but the Rays would likely pass on him with Longoria close to ready. If we are #2, is he the guy?
Who cares if he plays third? He's being compared to Albert Pujols. You take the best guy, even if it's not necessarily a need and worry about who to send out of here to make room later.

And actually, the Sox may end up keeping Fields in left, so after next year, 3B will be open.
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  #21  
Old 09-08-2007, 01:54 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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...but is Pedro Alvarez a "grinder"? If not, then why would we want to draft him?
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2007, 04:19 PM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Originally Posted by oeo View Post
Who cares if he plays third? He's being compared to Albert Pujols. You take the best guy, even if it's not necessarily a need and worry about who to send out of here to make room later.

And actually, the Sox may end up keeping Fields in left, so after next year, 3B will be open.
I wasn't saying I wouldn't draft him if he can't play SS - but he is more valuable if he can. We've been able to find 3B over time - in my lifetime we've never had a great SS.


"Wha bow me?"

Nope - you neither Ozzie.
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  #23  
Old 09-08-2007, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Man Soo Lee View Post
If you give a guy a major league contract, he goes on the 40-man roster immediately. A player drafted out of high school would be out of options at age 21-22, forcing the team to keep him in the majors regardless of his development. He's more likely to be rushed and waste one or more of the six years he's under team control before he's ready to compete.

If you're going to give a major league contract to a high schooler, he'd better be special.
A player on the 40-man has three option years. A kid with enough ability to be worthy of a Major League contract should be in the Majors within three years, high school or college. You figure that player is going to probably spend his first year between rookie and low A ball, probably his second between High A and Double A, and his third at Double A or between Double A and Triple A.

Of course if injuries or other setbacks occur progress may be derailed, but you deal with that obstacle when you come to it. Three years is a good enough amount of time to get at least a decent idea what you have in your prospect regardless of what happens. When that time comes, if you don't want him on the MLB team or can't afford to have him on the MLB team, trade him.

Still, the simple fact that an issue may pop up three years down the road isn't a legitimate reason to pass up a superior talent for someone else who provides more flexibility IMO. Any organization is going to get burned here and there in the draft, but that shouldn't be enough to deter an organization from making the best effort possible.

Another funny thing is that you have people complaining about throwing away money and contracts and draft picks, specifically first rounders, saying that highly touted players who end up as busts can hold an organization back. Not to go back to the Porcello thing again, but just to make an example I'll use it because it's recent. IIRC 3.5mil is what we saved by drafting Poreda and we didn't have to give out a MLB contract. Well, add up how much money we've paid PK, Garland, Contreras, Cintron, Pods, Erstad, etc. this year. How much money have we pissed down the toilet on our MLB team? Not saying that those players weren't worth their contracts at the time they were given out, but still, those players haven't played to their contracts this year and now some of those contracts are going to hold the Sox back a lot more than a higher paid draft pick would. And of course there's the 40-man spot issue again, but hell, we could probably drop Paulino Reynoso and re-sign him to a minor league contract once he goes unclaimed if we really wanted him in the first place.
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  #24  
Old 09-08-2007, 08:14 PM
ilsox7 ilsox7 is offline
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Originally Posted by UserNameBlank View Post
A kid with enough ability to be worthy of a Major League contract should be in the Majors within three years, high school or college.
That is simply not true. How many 21 year old kids do you see in MLB? You can maybe get away with saying that about college players, but even then, it's a big stretch.
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  #25  
Old 09-08-2007, 10:24 PM
itsnotrequired itsnotrequired is offline
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The Sox should draft an imaginary dragon in 2008.
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  #26  
Old 09-08-2007, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by itsnotrequired View Post
The Sox should draft an imaginary dragon in 2008.
I say go for the real thing. We could incinerate our opponents with our fire breathing dragon.
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  #27  
Old 09-08-2007, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ilsox7 View Post
I say go for the real thing. We could incinerate our opponents with our fire breathing dragon.


"Where would he play?"
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  #28  
Old 09-09-2007, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jabrch View Post
I wasn't saying I wouldn't draft him if he can't play SS - but he is more valuable if he can. We've been able to find 3B over time - in my lifetime we've never had a great SS.


"Wha bow me?"

Nope - you neither Ozzie.
This is true, but I don't think moving a guy to a position he's probably not entirely comfortable at, would change that. Sure, he'd still be putting up the offensive numbers, but if he has little-to-no range/is just plain bad defensively, what's the point? Just so we can say we drafted a good offensive SS?
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  #29  
Old 09-09-2007, 01:09 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by itsnotrequired View Post


"Where would he play?"
He could come out of the bullpen.
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  #30  
Old 09-09-2007, 01:26 AM
UserNameBlank UserNameBlank is offline
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Originally Posted by ilsox7 View Post
That is simply not true. How many 21 year old kids do you see in MLB? You can maybe get away with saying that about college players, but even then, it's a big stretch.
There are a lot more than you think.

I'm obviously not going to go through the league or anything, but just on our team the following players made their MLB debut before turning 22: Gavin Floyd, Ryan Sweeney, AJ Pierznski, Paul Konerko, Boone Logan, Jon Garland, Mark Buehrle, Jim Thome, Jermaine Dye, and Joe Crede. That's 1/4 of our 40 man roster. Sisco, Erstad, Terrero, and Danks all debuted at 22. I'm sure if you wanted to look you'd find a ton of players who have made their debut as 21 year olds or younger.

Edit: actually, I just looked and Danks did debut as a 21 year old but turned 22 later in the year. So that's 21 out of 40 players on our current 40-man. Also, of the players listed only Danks, Floyd, Konerko, and Garland were first rounders. And none of them were taken as high as we'd be picking, except maybe Floyd but that would only be if we climb up a couple spots. So we're talking about drafting players here that at the time of the draft would be more highly touted than any of the players on our team were when they were drafted. I'd say giving a major league contract to the BAP and top 3 overall in next June's draft shouldn't be a problem, high school or college.

Last edited by UserNameBlank; 09-09-2007 at 01:41 AM.
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