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  #76  
Old 03-14-2007, 10:03 PM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
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I am for giving Floyd a chance to show us what he can do in the majors. Philly did with him what Ozzie is doing with BA. Phillly gave Floyd 4 starts in 2005 and 11 last year to prove himself at the major league level before shipping him to AAA. That is 15 starts at the major league level and a September callup to prove himself. IMO, that's no way to bring along your top prospect. Danks has been impressive this spring, but I think he could use a whole season at AAA. We want to be sure he is 100% ready when we bring him up. In the same regard, sending BA to AAA is asinine. Kenny wants to gradually bring along some young, cheap players. If Ozzie is going to be so ****ing stubborn about not giving the young talent a viable shot to prove that they can play, then Kenny needs to smack some sense into him Chuck Norris style. If BA gets traded, then, even though I like Javy, trading Chris Young was a collossal mistake because we have no minor leaguer that we can give a shot to replace him, and we'll be forced to overpay on the FA market.
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  #77  
Old 03-14-2007, 10:12 PM
White_Sock White_Sock is offline
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Originally posted by I want Mag's Bag
looks like 04 all over again, with no 5th at all

STOP IT! You are hurting my brain like my Hummer hurts Arianna Huffington's tax plan! YOU LACK DISCIPLINE!
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Last edited by White_Sock; 03-14-2007 at 10:13 PM. Reason: format
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  #78  
Old 03-14-2007, 10:28 PM
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Jjav829 Jjav829 is offline
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Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986 View Post
I am for giving Floyd a chance to show us what he can do in the majors. Philly did with him what Ozzie is doing with BA. Phillly gave Floyd 4 starts in 2005 and 11 last year to prove himself at the major league level before shipping him to AAA. That is 15 starts at the major league level and a September callup to prove himself. IMO, that's no way to bring along your top prospect. Danks has been impressive this spring, but I think he could use a whole season at AAA. We want to be sure he is 100% ready when we bring him up. In the same regard, sending BA to AAA is asinine. Kenny wants to gradually bring along some young, cheap players. If Ozzie is going to be so ****ing stubborn about not giving the young talent a viable shot to prove that they can play, then Kenny needs to smack some sense into him Chuck Norris style. If BA gets traded, then, even though I like Javy, trading Chris Young was a collossal mistake because we have no minor leaguer that we can give a shot to replace him, and we'll be forced to overpay on the FA market.
Floyd was not the Phillies top prospect. The major difference between the players you are comparing is that BA had at least put together a solid minor league season in 2005. Floyd hasn't had any kind of track record of consistent success. He dominated in A ball and AA. Then he got bumped up to AAA in 2004 and struggled. The Phillies called Floyd up later that year. He struggled a bit with his command, but he got some outs. His ERA wasn't bad, but his peripherals were awful. Floyd began 2005 in AAA and was brutal, posting a 6+ ERA. Philly gave him another chance in the majors, and he impressed by posting an even worse 10.04 ERA. He started 2006 in AAA again, and he was solid, though unspectacular. Philly called Floyd up again and he was awful yet again. The last time Floyd had any consistent success was in AA during the 2004 season.
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  #79  
Old 03-14-2007, 10:55 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by FarWestChicago View Post
Every season we have a contest to see who can quit on the Sox first. And we have other fine traditions around here:







When you paint on that canvas, you need to do something to differentiate yourself from the quitters.
You forgot one:



This one is good, too, if it refers to those who get worked up over nothing:



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  #80  
Old 03-14-2007, 10:59 PM
beckett21 beckett21 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jjav829 View Post
Floyd was not the Phillies top prospect. The major difference between the players you are comparing is that BA had at least put together a solid minor league season in 2005. Floyd hasn't had any kind of track record of consistent success. He dominated in A ball and AA. Then he got bumped up to AAA in 2004 and struggled. The Phillies called Floyd up later that year. He struggled a bit with his command, but he got some outs. His ERA wasn't bad, but his peripherals were awful. Floyd began 2005 in AAA and was brutal, posting a 6+ ERA. Philly gave him another chance in the majors, and he impressed by posting an even worse 10.04 ERA. He started 2006 in AAA again, and he was solid, though unspectacular. Philly called Floyd up again and he was awful yet again. The last time Floyd had any consistent success was in AA during the 2004 season.
Details, details...
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  #81  
Old 03-14-2007, 11:13 PM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jjav829 View Post
Floyd was not the Phillies top prospect. The major difference between the players you are comparing is that BA had at least put together a solid minor league season in 2005. Floyd hasn't had any kind of track record of consistent success. He dominated in A ball and AA. Then he got bumped up to AAA in 2004 and struggled. The Phillies called Floyd up later that year. He struggled a bit with his command, but he got some outs. His ERA wasn't bad, but his peripherals were awful. Floyd began 2005 in AAA and was brutal, posting a 6+ ERA. Philly gave him another chance in the majors, and he impressed by posting an even worse 10.04 ERA. He started 2006 in AAA again, and he was solid, though unspectacular. Philly called Floyd up again and he was awful yet again. The last time Floyd had any consistent success was in AA during the 2004 season.
I didn't know that he started in AAA and sucked in 2005. Floyd was still highly regarded by Baseball America in 2005 and only Ryan Howard was ahead of him in the Phillies org. on their top 100 list, and that is what I am going by for the top prospect status. So then he wasn't their top overall prospect but he was their top pitching prospect. Still, 19 starts does not a career make. If they thought he had become a non-prospect, then they wouldn't have given him so many shots at the major league level and would have taken him off their 40-man roster or left him available for the rule 5 draft, right? So obviously the talent is there, and there is still hope for major league success.
Maybe I made the wrong comparison in regards to AAA performance, but the point I was trying to make was that Philly didn't give Floyd a realistic shot to try to work his **** out at the major league level, and that we shouldn't make the same mistake with BA.
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  #82  
Old 03-15-2007, 12:07 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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West, if i say the Sox have any apparent weakness at all before one pitch of the official 2007 season is in the books, am I quitting on the season? If I was a fan on *any* team and worried they had a weakness in ST, would I be quitting on their season? Just want to clarify the ground rules here.
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  #83  
Old 03-15-2007, 08:04 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by santo=dorf View Post
My post was specifically direct towards Floyd, not Danks or Haeger.

I have been campaigning for Haeger to be on the 2007 roster since last September, and I've already shown support for Danks as the fifth starter (Danks has a posse.)

So here's your prize for completely misreading my post and twisting my point.
Hey, thanks for the dark-cloud glasses! I love prizes Now I understand completely! I realize now that the Sox ending up with a decent 5th starter among the 3 main candidates (even if it isn't Floyd) isn't what matters. What matters is that Gavin Floyd hasn't looked so great as of March 14.

Before I admittedly had concerns about our 5th starter, but I was also foolishly being cautiously optimistic that one of the 3 will actually do well as our 5th starter this year. I was going to wait until April 7 to see how our 5th starter performs when it counts. I was also going to wait beyond spring training '07 to see how Floyd and Gio turn out in regards to that trade. But, you right, I'll start complaining about the Garcia trade and our 5th starter problem now.
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  #84  
Old 03-15-2007, 08:29 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
West, if i say the Sox have any apparent weakness at all before one pitch of the official 2007 season is in the books, am I quitting on the season? If I was a fan on *any* team and worried they had a weakness in ST, would I be quitting on their season? Just want to clarify the ground rules here.
I think this is a good question and actually would like to hear what the mods thoughts are on this.

I think you are right that a frank discussion about Sox strengths and weaknesses make this site great. If everything is just sugar-coated and only positive, then I feel like I'm just hearing the company line and just fooling ourselves.

However, IMO, there are true dark clouds here that don't want to even give Erstad, Anderson, Danks, etc. a chance and some have already said the Sox have no chance of winning the division this year.

Are there concerns? Yes. I for one am concerned that Buehrle and Contreras won't rebound from a poor '06. But, I'm cautiously optimistic at this point. Relax, it's only March.
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  #85  
Old 03-15-2007, 09:36 AM
PaulDrake PaulDrake is offline
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Originally Posted by FarWestChicago View Post
My apologies Paul. I believe you may have outdone Lip. I forgot you gave up on the season when Freddy was traded. What day of the year was that? It's got to be the new record for caving.
I hate the Freddy trade. I will be very surprised if Floyd turns out to be anything but a stiff. I'm cautiously optimistic about KWs other moves and wish the season started today. As long as I'm a member here, I'll never be part of the "amen" corner. Hope it doesn't hurt my Q rating too much.
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  #86  
Old 03-15-2007, 09:52 AM
PaulDrake PaulDrake is offline
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Originally Posted by santo=dorf View Post
My post was specifically direct towards Floyd, not Danks or Haeger.
Me too. I think Floyd is the stiffest of stiffs. Of course he's welcome to prove me wrong. I'm hopeful that Danks and/or Haeger will eventually be decent starters. I'm just not sure it's this year. For that I'm called a quitter. If I respond in kind, I may get banned. No one who stuck with this team in the mostly dark years from 68-80, and the very forgettable late 80s and late 90s should be labeled a quitter. No one. I feel like I'm back in 9th grade at Senn High School doing my best to defend myself from the big bad bullies.
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  #87  
Old 03-15-2007, 11:19 AM
champagne030 champagne030 is offline
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Originally Posted by FarWestChicago View Post
Every season we have a contest to see who can quit on the Sox first. And we have other fine traditions around here:







When you paint on that canvas, you need to do something to differentiate yourself from the quitters.
Here's another tradition that we see a lot around here:



Don't worry, drink some Kool-Aid and be happy.....
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  #88  
Old 03-15-2007, 11:32 AM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
West, if i say the Sox have any apparent weakness at all before one pitch of the official 2007 season is in the books, am I quitting on the season? If I was a fan on *any* team and worried they had a weakness in ST, would I be quitting on their season? Just want to clarify the ground rules here.
Kittle - I know you weren't addressing me, but I'll throw my 2 cents in - isn't there a difference between saying the team has a weakness, and declaring that player X has absolutely no chance of being effective in that role, when there is ample evidence that whomever that player is, he has at least a decent chance, and that we actually have depth at any of these positions that are questions.

You aren't quitting if you say we have a questionable 5th starter - but if all you do is bitch about BA/Erstad, Floyd/Danks, etc, then that is quitting.
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  #89  
Old 03-15-2007, 11:55 AM
spiffie spiffie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jjav829 View Post
Floyd was not the Phillies top prospect. The major difference between the players you are comparing is that BA had at least put together a solid minor league season in 2005. Floyd hasn't had any kind of track record of consistent success. He dominated in A ball and AA. Then he got bumped up to AAA in 2004 and struggled. The Phillies called Floyd up later that year. He struggled a bit with his command, but he got some outs. His ERA wasn't bad, but his peripherals were awful. Floyd began 2005 in AAA and was brutal, posting a 6+ ERA. Philly gave him another chance in the majors, and he impressed by posting an even worse 10.04 ERA. He started 2006 in AAA again, and he was solid, though unspectacular. Philly called Floyd up again and he was awful yet again. The last time Floyd had any consistent success was in AA during the 2004 season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarWestChicago View Post
Every season we have a contest to see who can quit on the Sox first. And we have other fine traditions around here:





I can't put it any better than West already did.
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  #90  
Old 03-15-2007, 12:54 PM
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Jjav829 Jjav829 is offline
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I can't put it any better than West already did.
Haha, give me a break. This from the guy who thinks the Sox have clearly the best starting rotation in baseball and the best outfield in baseball.

Now I remember why I went about two months without making a post in the Clubhouse or even reading it. The color scheme isn't the only thing that's black and white around here.

So, just to get this straight, I'm a "dark cloud" because I think Gavin Floyd is a bad pitcher, based largely on the fact that he hasn't done jack-**** in 3 years. Oh, but he was a former 1st round pick! Let's bring in Matt Anderson, Jason Stumm, Jason Grilli, Ryan Anderson, Kurt Ainsworth, Ben Christensen, Dewon Brazelton (Hey, he was drafted a pick before Floyd! He must be even better!), Colt Griffin, and so on.

Your post is even more ridiculous because I think John Danks is going to be a very good pitcher, possibly even this year.
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