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  #46  
Old 03-14-2007, 04:00 AM
HotelWhiteSox HotelWhiteSox is offline
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Originally Posted by ilsox7 View Post
It's asinine to say the Sox have no 5th starter based on a couple of weeks of spring training. Using the same logic we also have no #2, #3, or #4 starter. If it were June 13, he may have a point. But it's not.

No wonder this place implodes after every Sox loss. It's March ****ing 13 and people are already declaring that the Sox have no plausible option for the #5 starter. It amazes me how many folks here love to rip on the Tribune, yet spew the same **** the newspaper does. But somehow the Tribune are misinformed idiots (which most of their writers are) yet dozens of folks make the same exact arguments here that the Tribune does in their rag.
It has nothing to do with spring training stats. It has more to do with going into the season without having one
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  #47  
Old 03-14-2007, 04:12 AM
ilsox7 ilsox7 is offline
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Originally Posted by HotelWhiteSox View Post
It has nothing to do with spring training stats. It has more to do with going into the season without having one
So b/c the Sox have a competition for the 5th starter job, that automatically means they are going into the season without a plausible option for the 5th spot?
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  #48  
Old 03-14-2007, 04:26 AM
dcb56 dcb56 is offline
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Originally Posted by ilsox7 View Post
Spring training stats, especially early spring training stats are about the last thing you want to rely on for any type of analysis. Pitchers may be going out there and working on a new pitch. Or may be throwing only fastballs. Or may have one bad outing followed by 3 outings when they are lights out, but the bad outing makes them look bad. Or they may be facing mostly minor league hitters.

Maybe if you're an established veteran you're experimenting with new pitches or new techniques, but these guys are competing for a spot in the big leauges, so to me it seems ludicrous to suggest that some, like Floyd, are struggling simply becuase they are simply "throwing only fastballs" or "working on a new pitch." Based on the inexperience of any of the pitchers competing for the 5th starting spot and the struggles of the most experienced of that bunch this spring training, it's only logical to conclude the White Sox have a gaping hole in the 5th starting slot going into this season.
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  #49  
Old 03-14-2007, 05:04 AM
ilsox7 ilsox7 is offline
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Originally Posted by dcb56 View Post
Maybe if you're an established veteran you're experimenting with new pitches or new techniques, but these guys are competing for a spot in the big leauges, so to me it seems ludicrous to suggest that some, like Floyd, are struggling simply becuase they are simply "throwing only fastballs" or "working on a new pitch." Based on the inexperience of any of the pitchers competing for the 5th starting spot and the struggles of the most experienced of that bunch this spring training, it's only logical to conclude the White Sox have a gaping hole in the 5th starting slot going into this season.
So any team that will be relying on an unproven or young pitcher to be part of its rotation has a gaping hole? If that's the case, then the vast majority of MLB teams have at least one gaping hole in their starting rotation.

It's very possible that Floyd has been working on something different over these past few weeks. In fact, I'd say it's likely. The thing that a lot of people here fail to realize is that the Sox don't fly off the handle when a guy has a "bad" outing or two in spring training. So if Coop went to Floyd a few weeks ago with a list of things to work on, and Floyd has been working on those with the cost being some results, the organization may actually be pleased with him. KW even came out a few days ago and flat-out said he has been extremely encouraged by Floyd thus far. Do I think he will be the 5th starter or have a decent year? I really don't know. But that's b/c I have not seen the guy throw one damn inning all spring (as most here also haven't). Therefore, if all I am left with for my analysis is a box score or KW/Ozzie/Coop's opinion, I am gonna go with KW/Ozzie/Coop on March 13.

We've got 19 days until Opening Day. Over this time, Floyd, Danks, and Haeger will be stretched out, facing MLB hitters for more than an inning or two, and will be in a dogfight for the 5th spot. Why don't we wait and see what happens over those 19 days before we declare that the Sox are ****ed. Who knows, all three might suck. Or Haeger may put up numbers like he did in AAA last year, Danks may continue to get guys out, and Floyd may be more effective. It's just sad that a lot of people seem to be ready to pounce in 19 days with all of their "I told you so" crap. But if one guy separates himself, then we'll hear all of the "Well I am glad I was proved wrong" bull****. Either way, it's irrational.

EDIT: It's funny. For all the folks declaring the Sox doomed b/c Floyd has struggled, so very few are using the same logic they used to come to that conclusion to declare the Sox are just fine b/c Danks and Haeger have put up good numbers thus far this spring.

Last edited by ilsox7; 03-14-2007 at 05:25 AM.
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  #50  
Old 03-14-2007, 11:54 AM
maurice maurice is offline
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Originally Posted by Daver View Post
How many teams in all of the MLB have better options for a FIFTH starter than the White Sox?
LMAO at some of the answers to this question. Even if you assume that Floyd is a 7 ERA pitcher, very few teams have clearly better #5 options than Danks and Haeger (leaving aside all the "maybes"). Heck, a good number of teams would gladly plug both of them into their MLB rotation.
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  #51  
Old 03-14-2007, 12:31 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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The fifth spot is obviously still wide open, but coming into spring training it was essentially Gavin Floyd's to lose. And he is losing his grip on it with every outting.
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  #52  
Old 03-14-2007, 12:37 PM
kevin57 kevin57 is offline
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The fifth spot is obviously still wide open, but coming into spring training it was essentially Gavin Floyd's to lose. And he is losing his grip on it with every outting.
Amen!
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  #53  
Old 03-14-2007, 01:11 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Maybe next time, they'll flip-flop it. Have Danks start and have Floyd work in relief. Make sure Danks has the opportunity to pitch against somebody's 'A' lineup.
Is Danks (and Haeger, don't forget about him) stretched out enough for that yet?

Also, this kind of competition is pretty much the purpose of Spring Training.
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  #54  
Old 03-14-2007, 01:16 PM
IndianWhiteSox IndianWhiteSox is offline
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That would be great if Jon Danks would become a solid #5 starter this year, but then I would be angry as Paul Drake would make me look like a total fool for stating that Gavin Floyd would win 15 games and I wouldn't be able to enjoy every moment of it.
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  #55  
Old 03-14-2007, 05:11 PM
ilsox7 ilsox7 is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Is Danks (and Haeger, don't forget about him) stretched out enough for that yet?

Also, this kind of competition is pretty much the purpose of Spring Training.
Danks went 3 yesterday and was supposed to go 4, but a Sox rally kept him out b/c they didn't want him going out to the mound after a long half inning. Haeger threw 4 scoreless innings yesterday, but in his 5th gave up a ocuple of runs. So yes, both are being stretched out.
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  #56  
Old 03-14-2007, 05:15 PM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Originally Posted by ilsox7 View Post
Danks went 3 yesterday and was supposed to go 4, but a Sox rally kept him out b/c they didn't want him going out to the mound after a long half inning. Haeger threw 4 scoreless innings yesterday, but in his 5th gave up a ocuple of runs. So yes, both are being stretched out.
I wonder what kind of trade value Haeger will have at the trade deadline assuming he doesn't pitch for us this year and he throws well in the minors?
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  #57  
Old 03-14-2007, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Daver View Post
How many teams in all of the MLB have better options for a FIFTH starter than the White Sox?

The Cubs. Their rotation has been set in stone since January!
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  #58  
Old 03-14-2007, 05:38 PM
ilsox7 ilsox7 is offline
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I wonder what kind of trade value Haeger will have at the trade deadline assuming he doesn't pitch for us this year and he throws well in the minors?
I really, really hope we do not trade him. He is what, 23, and people are saying he has the best knuckleball for someone his age maybe ever. He can be so valuable for many years, as he will give you solid numbers out of the back end of the rotation and be able to be a long relief man. Plus, he probably won't end up breaking the bank the way some of the "traditional" pitchers do. I really hope KW holds on to him unless he is blown away by a trade proposal.
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  #59  
Old 03-14-2007, 06:45 PM
santo=dorf santo=dorf is offline
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Originally Posted by maurice View Post
LMAO at some of the answers to this question. Even if you assume that Floyd is a 7 ERA pitcher, very few teams have clearly better #5 options than Danks and Haeger (leaving aside all the "maybes"). Heck, a good number of teams would gladly plug both of them into their MLB rotation.
Yeah, LMAO at Jeremy Sowers, Mike Maroth, Calros Villanueva, Lieber/Eaton, Clement/Papelbon, Colon/Saunders, Chad Billingsley/Tomko/Hendrickson, Tim Stauffer, Joe Kennedy, and Juan Cruz.

I wouldn't be LMAO if the Sox had any or all of these guys as options (like Daver asked) for the fifth starter instead of that current piece of garbage who's getting the royal treatment because he only has one option left and he's taking the place of the guy we traded to acquire him.

Go ahead and tell me with a straight face that Gavin Floyd is a better option than any of the fifth starters I just listed.

LMAO.
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  #60  
Old 03-14-2007, 06:54 PM
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FarWestChicago FarWestChicago is offline
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Originally Posted by PaulDrake View Post
Saying that the Sox 5th starter situation looks like horse**** now doesn't make one a pansy or a quitter. You have to play the games and there are always surprises in baseball. I'm sure the 07 season will be no exception. In the meantime it's OK to have an opinion that goes against the grain here, isn't it? The Sox right now don't look to me like they're going to have a viable 5th starter ready.
My apologies Paul. I believe you may have outdone Lip. I forgot you gave up on the season when Freddy was traded. What day of the year was that? It's got to be the new record for caving.
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