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  #31  
Old 03-13-2007, 08:13 PM
The Immigrant The Immigrant is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
on paper, we have a huge hole at the No. 5 starter right now
Based on spring training performance alone, that hole is no greater than it would be if McCarthy was still around. Let's give the young guys, especially Danks, a couple more weeks before we start freaking out.
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  #32  
Old 03-13-2007, 08:19 PM
BigPapaPump BigPapaPump is offline
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Sorry guys I lost my desk job and haven't been able to follow as closely as I like, but are the only two possible options Danks and Floyd? I really would like to see Haeger get a shot especially out of the dry air of AZ and back in Chicago.
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  #33  
Old 03-13-2007, 08:31 PM
sox1970 sox1970 is offline
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Sorry guys I lost my desk job and haven't been able to follow as closely as I like, but are the only two possible options Danks and Floyd? I really would like to see Haeger get a shot especially out of the dry air of AZ and back in Chicago.
I'm pulling for Haeger. I'd like to see them use Haeger as starter and reliever for the first couple months, while the other 4 pitch on normal rest as much as possible. Then re-evaluate in late May once the AAA guys get about 8-9 starts under their belts.
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  #34  
Old 03-13-2007, 08:39 PM
viagracat viagracat is offline
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I'm guessing #5 is Floyd's spot to lose as he has fewer minor league options than Danks, who is only 21. If Danks really does emerge as the #5 in ST, so be it and Godspeed to him, but I imagine everyone would prefer that he at least start the season in Charlotte for more experience and seasoning. I've seen too many young pitchers over the years brought up too early just to get hammered by major league hitters, and were never the same after that.

Danks could be the big southpaw we need if and when Buehrle leaves. No need to rush him, unless, of course, there are no other options. He will get his chance and I'm excited about his potential.

I'd be very surprised if Haeger ends up getting the role, but I've been surprised before.
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  #35  
Old 03-13-2007, 08:47 PM
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FarWestChicago FarWestChicago is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
... but you can't say you don't see how one could think the more likely scenario is failure.
I can say that. I think only pansied out wusses are giving up at this point. I think Lip is the only one who has ever officially given up on a season in March. But, it looks like there may be a lot of new March Quitters this year. Sheesh, at least let the Sox lose one or two regular season games before folding.
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  #36  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:29 PM
soxtalker soxtalker is offline
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Let's say Danks is looking good enough to make the team at the end of ST. As others have pointed out, it wouldn't hurt for him to get experience in the minors for awhile. There's also the option of bringing him up a little later in the season. While it might be a relatively minor factor, don't the Sox get an extra year before arbitration if they keep Danks in the minors for a couple of months.
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  #37  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:38 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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I can say that. I think only pansied out wusses are giving up at this point. I think Lip is the only one who has ever officially given up on a season in March. But, it looks like there may be a lot of new March Quitters this year. Sheesh, at least let the Sox lose one or two regular season games before folding.
West, maybe there are some people who are "giving up," but I really doubt it. There is a difference between saying "THE FIFTH STARTER SUX...OMG, WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO OMG OMG!" and saying that one is concerned, based not only on spring training performance but also on Floyd's admittedly limited MLB experience so far, and the youth of Danks, and both for Haeger, and the fact that no one else seems to be an option, that the fifth starter spot may return to the liability it once was. The former is more what you describe as "pansied out wussiness." The latter is a reasoned and valid concern over what, ON PAPER and in ST so far, appears to be a weakness in our favorite team.

Agreed that the people who panic too much over one weakness need to calm down.

Agreed that the people who base ANYTHING on a W/L record in spring training should stop following sports.

Disagree that criticizing and being concerned about the 5th starter spot, CF, Andy Sisco, David Aardsma, or whomever else someone may have a valid concern about base don past performance indicators and present spring performance is wussing out and giving up on the season.

If we only start discussing the positives of our team and hope the sun will come out tomorrow and throw venom at anyone who dare question our team, we are no better than...well, you know.
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  #38  
Old 03-13-2007, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
West, maybe there are some people who are "giving up," but I really doubt it. There is a difference between saying "THE FIFTH STARTER SUX...OMG, WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO OMG OMG!" and saying that one is concerned, based not only on spring training performance but also on Floyd's admittedly limited MLB experience so far, and the youth of Danks, and both for Haeger, and the fact that no one else seems to be an option, that the fifth starter spot may return to the liability it once was. The former is more what you describe as "pansied out wussiness." The latter is a reasoned and valid concern over what, ON PAPER and in ST so far, appears to be a weakness in our favorite team.

Agreed that the people who panic too much over one weakness need to calm down.

Agreed that the people who base ANYTHING on a W/L record in spring training should stop following sports.

Disagree that criticizing and being concerned about the 5th starter spot, CF, Andy Sisco, David Aardsma, or whomever else someone may have a valid concern about base don past performance indicators and present spring performance is wussing out and giving up on the season.

If we only start discussing the positives of our team and hope the sun will come out tomorrow and throw venom at anyone who dare question our team, we are no better than...well, you know.
How many teams in all of the MLB have better options for a FIFTH starter than the White Sox?
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  #39  
Old 03-13-2007, 10:18 PM
UserNameBlank UserNameBlank is offline
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I've seen too many young pitchers over the years brought up too early just to get hammered by major league hitters, and were never the same after that.
Obviously I don't know either of these guys personally so this is just an assumption, but everything that I've heard or read regarding Danks says he is battler with a strong mental approach to the game. His numbers in the minors indicate that he figures things out after he struggles and rebounds nicely.

Floyd OTOH has seemed to be the exact opposite. Even though he has big league experience that Danks doesn't, he seems much more fragile mentally than anyone else who was in serious consideration for the 5th when the Sox broke camp. Right now with Gavin, at least in his interviews, his main focus is throwing strikes, attacking hitters, and trying not to think about anything. While Gavin does need to make serious changes from his Philly days, I worry more about him losing confidence in himself after getting lit up again at the major league level, so even though Danks would almost certainly benefit starting the season in Triple A, I think the best for both players and the Sox longterm would be Gavin starting in Charlotte with Danks in Chicago. That is unless Haeger makes a late push and is given the nod, which might be the best scenario for the future of everyone involved.
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  #40  
Old 03-13-2007, 10:24 PM
gobears1987 gobears1987 is offline
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I'm really liking Danks. I think Ozzie will make him the #5. He really makes the fingernails trade look good.

I never expected Floyd to do anything. He had an ERA of almost 7 in the weak NL. I can't imagine what AL lineups would do to him.
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  #41  
Old 03-13-2007, 10:26 PM
santo=dorf santo=dorf is offline
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How many teams in all of the MLB have better options for a FIFTH starter than the White Sox?
Tigers, Indians, Brewers, Phillies, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Padres, maybe Athletics, maybe Diamondbacks.

So that's more than a 1/3 of the rest of the league and our two main rivals.
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  #42  
Old 03-13-2007, 10:33 PM
UserNameBlank UserNameBlank is offline
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How many teams in all of the MLB have better options for a FIFTH starter than the White Sox?
Off the top of my head:
Cleveland, Detroit, maybe Minny with Bonser and Garza - even though Ortiz and Ponson both suck, possibly KC, Oakland, LAAA, the Yankees, maybe Toronto or Milwaukee, AZ, Philly, Boston, maybe even Atlanta as far as short-term, possibly the Mets with Pelfrey even though their rotation sucks, even though I hate to say it maybe the Cubs with Wade Miller, the Dodgers because even though Tomko sucks they have Broxton in the pen...

Actually, most teams have better options for 5th starter right now that the Sox do. Of course, 1-4 with the Sox is the most important part and 1-4 the Sox are better than most of those teams on that list, but all things considered the Sox are weak in that spot until someone steps up and proves themself in the regular season. Danks, Heager, and Floyd all could be that guy, but Haeger is the only guy that is probably ready right here and now. I have a feeling Heath Phillips could get the call later on this year if he picks up where he left off at Charlotte.
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  #43  
Old 03-13-2007, 10:49 PM
PaulDrake PaulDrake is offline
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Originally Posted by FarWestChicago View Post
I can say that. I think only pansied out wusses are giving up at this point. I think Lip is the only one who has ever officially given up on a season in March. But, it looks like there may be a lot of new March Quitters this year. Sheesh, at least let the Sox lose one or two regular season games before folding.
Saying that the Sox 5th starter situation looks like horse**** now doesn't make one a pansy or a quitter. You have to play the games and there are always surprises in baseball. I'm sure the 07 season will be no exception. In the meantime it's OK to have an opinion that goes against the grain here, isn't it? The Sox right now don't look to me like they're going to have a viable 5th starter ready.
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  #44  
Old 03-14-2007, 03:02 AM
WhiteSoxFan84 WhiteSoxFan84 is offline
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Danks is looking solid. I'm not giving up on Floyd, but I'm now a little upset at the Freddy Garcia trade. I see what Gio Gonzalez is doing (4 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 3 BB, 3 K) and I'm impressed thus far, but if this trade ends up being Garcia for Gonzalez, yikes. At the sametime, I'm now happy about the Brandon McCarthy deal as Danks (9 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 6K) looks to be a solid fifth starter in 2007. Nick Masset (6.1 IP, 8 H, 6 ER, 3 BB, 3K) is struggling but has a lot of time to improve.
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  #45  
Old 03-14-2007, 03:16 AM
ilsox7 ilsox7 is offline
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Danks is looking solid. I'm not giving up on Floyd, but I'm now a little upset at the Freddy Garcia trade. I see what Gio Gonzalez is doing (4 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 3 BB, 3 K) and I'm impressed thus far, but if this trade ends up being Garcia for Gonzalez, yikes. At the sametime, I'm now happy about the Brandon McCarthy deal as Danks (9 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 6K) looks to be a solid fifth starter in 2007. Nick Masset (6.1 IP, 8 H, 6 ER, 3 BB, 3K) is struggling but has a lot of time to improve.
Spring training stats, especially early spring training stats are about the last thing you want to rely on for any type of analysis. Pitchers may be going out there and working on a new pitch. Or may be throwing only fastballs. Or may have one bad outing followed by 3 outings when they are lights out, but the bad outing makes them look bad. Or they may be facing mostly minor league hitters.

If people here did nor did not like the trades this winter there is not much that has happened the last 3 weeks to change your opinion (or at least their shouldn't be). Barely anyone in Chicago has actually seen these guys throw. And those who have seen them throw have seen so few innings. Basically, we are where we were when the trades were made: you either trust KW and the organization's scouting of the players or you don't. A handful of innings under non-regular season conditions should not do much to change that.
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