phil rogers at it again...

[ChiTownTrojan]

Probably because there is a minimum number of innings to qualify. Most teams don't have 5 guys stay in their rotation all year long. There are injuries and demotions all the time. The Sox have been very lucky in this regard the past couple years.

[ilsox7]

Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan

Probably because there is a minimum number of innings to qualify. Most teams don't have 5 guys stay in their rotation all year long. There are injuries and demotions all the time. The Sox have been very lucky in this regard the past couple years.

But still, only 39 guys? That's less than 3 qualifiers per team!

I will admit that it appears Jon is not as much of a groundball pitcher as I thought, but I still cannot find reliable statistics on the topic.

[PaleHoseGeorge]

You go to sleep around here and a whole new war breaks out.

Originally Posted by Vernam

Just today you wrote, "This is a despicable plan, not just because it puts economics ahead of competitiveness but because it guarantees that guys who brought a World Series parade to Chicago are going to be leaving town too soon, maybe still in their primes."

Care to rephrase one of those statements? Either you erred in saying you haven't "run down" the Sox, or your "despicable" comment is surely something you want to take back.

Vernam

I would use this as Exhibit A why posting at WSI is one-thousand times more difficult than writing a newspaper article. Phil is caught on the wire here and gets raked by machine gun fire like nothing he ever felt in that lame Cubune "Letters to the Editor" section. Nicely played, V.

I'll add my voice to the chorus thanking Phil for showing up and defending himself. Every Sox Fan knows too well what sort of weasel works at the other rag in town -- too scared to even show up in the clubhouse, forget about a forum like this one.

Thanks Phil, and happy holidays!

[TomBradley72]

Originally Posted by progers13

But here's my question: It really doesn't bother any of you guys that the White Sox see every member of their World Series rotation as replaceable at the end of their current contracts?

Phil: First of all...you deserve alot of credit for posting here and having a dialogue with the WSI members.

To answer your question...does it bother me? Not necessarily. By 2009...we'll be four years removed from the World Series...in contemporary MLB that's an eternity. For example, the World Series champion four years ago were the Angels...their top 4 starters were: J. Washburn, R. Ortiz, K. Appier and J. Lackey...only lackey was part of their rotation in 2006. I think the concern about our rotation in 2009 is nearly 100% irrelevent..so much can happen over the course of the 2007 and 2008 seasons. What would have made your point valid would be a little research around the frequency of World Series champions holding on to their rotations for four full seasons following a championship...is it common? are the White Sox unusual or typical in how they are approaching this? and what does that say about JR and KW's approach?

With the history of quality baseball in this town (or lack thereof..especially on the north side)...how our rotation is shaping up three years from now is pretty low on the priority list. Only time will tell if KW's aggressive approach to acquiring high quality young arms was the right strategy.

With that said...Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Phil...any and all "hot stove league" debates are a gift from my perspective.

[itsnotrequired]

Originally Posted by TomBradley72

For example, the World Series champion four years ago were the Angels...their top 4 starters were: J. Washburn, R. Ortiz, K. Appier and J. Lackey...only lackey was part of their rotation in 2006.

Hell, you don't even have to go back as far as 2001. Only Schilling and Wakefield were still pitching for the Red Sox in 2006.

[Lprof]

Originally Posted by cbotnyse

Any trade is a gamble. I wouldnt call it a "scary leap."

I think you are missing the key point here: Kenny has traded three solid major league performers, including one 17 game winner, off of a contender and received back NOT ONE SINGLE PLAYER WITH ANY DEGREE OF PROVEN SUCCESS AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL. Indeed, based on their minor league records or failures in the majors, one could call most of them suspects, rather than prospects. I don't know how anyone could say our team is better for 2007 than before the trades. And as for 3009 and 2010? Please--minor league pitchers are always long shots--remember Scott Ruffcorn? Can't miss my butt. And none of these guys has the minor league success that Ruffcorn had. But let's assume one or more of these guys will be a solid performer in 2009--will Dye, Thome, or Crede be here? Are we going to spend the money to bring in comparable free agents? The answer is very clear; we go to the park at a 3 million clip, and this crap is the way they reward us. This is the year to go for it, and we seem to be trading for the future. I just don't get it.

[ilsox7]

Originally Posted by Lprof

I think you are missing the key point here: Kenny has traded three solid major league performers, including one 17 game winner,

Who are the other two?

[itsnotrequired]

Originally Posted by Lprof

I think you are missing the key point here: Kenny has traded three solid major league performers, including one 17 game winner, off of a contender and received back NOT ONE SINGLE PLAYER WITH ANY DEGREE OF PROVEN SUCCESS AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL. Indeed, based on their minor league records or failures in the majors, one could call most of them suspects, rather than prospects. I don't know how anyone could say our team is better for 2007 than before the trades. And as for 3009 and 2010? Please--minor league pitchers are always long shots--remember Scott Ruffcorn? Can't miss my butt. And none of these guys has the minor league success that Ruffcorn had. But let's assume one or more of these guys will be a solid performer in 2009--will Dye, Thome, or Crede be here? Are we going to spend the money to bring in comparable free agents? The answer is very clear; we go to the park at a 3 million clip, and this crap is the way they reward us. This is the year to go for it, and we seem to be trading for the future. I just don't get it.

Good grief, why do so many people think that Reinsdorf is laughing to himself and saying "Those South Side rubes! Now that I have their money, I can finally go cheap with the team and buy that new boat I've had my eye on! Ha ha ha!"

Do you know for a fact these prospects won't pan out? Do you know for a fact that Kenny isn't packaging them for some other deal? Kenny is rolling the dice here. It might work out, it might not but I for one believe that KW is doing what he can to keep the team a consistent playoff contender for years to come.

[ilsox7]

Originally Posted by itsnotrequired

Good grief, why do so many people think that Reinsdorf is laughing to himself and saying "Those South Side rubes! Now that I have their money, I can finally go cheap with the team and buy that new boat I've had my eye on! Ha ha ha!"

It's becoming painfully obvious that some of the **** the media spews is actually believed by a fair amount of the public.

[Lprof]

Originally Posted by ilsox7

Who are the other two?

I consider both Gload and McCarthy to be "solid major leaguers"; I didn't say stars, or even starters, but solid contributors to a successful major league team. Does anybody we received satisfy that criterion? Also, what I failed to mention is that not only have we not gotten back proven major league talent, we still have holes at the bottom of the order.

[itsnotrequired]

Originally Posted by Lprof

I consider both Gload and McCarthy to be "solid major leaguers"; I didn't say stars, or even starters, but solid contributors to a successful major league team. Does anybody we received satisfy that criterion? Also, what I failed to mention is that not only have we not gotten back proven major league talent, we still have holes at the bottom of the order.

The Sox got Sisco for Gload. Do you not consider him a "solid major leaguers"?

[Lprof]

Originally Posted by itsnotrequired

Good grief, why do so many people think that Reinsdorf is laughing to himself and saying "Those South Side rubes! Now that I have their money, I can finally go cheap with the team and buy that new boat I've had my eye on! Ha ha ha!"

Do you know for a fact these prospects won't pan out? Do you know for a fact that Kenny isn't packaging them for some other deal? Kenny is rolling the dice here. It might work out, it might not but I for one believe that KW is doing what he can to keep the team a consistent playoff contender for years to come.

"consistent playoff contender for years to come"--does that include this coming year? Are we a better team for this coming year now than before the trades? Who, of the minor league pitchers Kenny got, is going to help us this coming year? No, I don't know they won't pan out; heck, I hope I am dead wrong. But it is a question of playing the odds. I wish I could have your apparently blind faith in KW. I hope things become more clear to me at the end of spring training as to what the plan is; all I have to go on now, however, is what he has done, and it sure seems strange.

[Lprof]

Originally Posted by itsnotrequired

The Sox got Sisco for Gload. Do you not consider him a "solid major leaguers"?

Did you see what Sisco did last year? Most inherited runners aloud; era over 7--for a relief pitcher??? Actually, I like Sisco, but I am basing that mostly on the year before. I will say, however, that of the four big trades (I failed to mention Cotts, but that one seems like a reasonable gamble) the one for Sisco seems the most reasonable. It is more the other two I find strange.

[Daver]

Originally Posted by Lprof

I consider both Gload and McCarthy to be "solid major leaguers"; I didn't say stars, or even starters, but solid contributors to a successful major league team. Does anybody we received satisfy that criterion? Also, what I failed to mention is that not only have we not gotten back proven major league talent, we still have holes at the bottom of the order.

Brandon McCarthy is not a proven MLB starting pitcher, and he looked terrible out of the bullpen in 2006.

Ross Gload is a bench player at best.

[ilsox7]

Originally Posted by Daver

Brandon McCarthy is not a proven MLB starting pitcher, and he looked terrible out of the bullpen in 2006.

Ross Gload is a bench player at best.

At least I'm not alone in my thinking.