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  #166  
Old 08-16-2006, 02:47 PM
dagotony06 dagotony06 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ol' No. 2
The decision has to be made well before that. Throwing up a stop sign when a runner is going full throttle around third is a great way to blow out a hamstring. If the throw to Grudz isn't perfect, if he hesitates slightly getting the ball out of his glove, if he doesn't have a good grip on the ball and double-clutches, if the throw is even a little bit up the line, Iguchi would have been safe and everyone would have been raving about what a great job Cora did. In fact, just last week people were ripping on him because he didn't send Konerko home from first base on a double.

I don't care how good your cleanup hitter his, he's going to make an out 70% of the time. And no matter how much the odds are in your favor, sometimes you roll snake-eyes. It was a calculated gamble, and it was absolutely the right decision.
Yes the decision does have to be made well before. And the wrong decision was made. Sanders got to the ball cleanly, didn't bobble it, the throw was perfect, Cora should have seen that, and he also should have seen Grudz handled the relay perfectly. I have seen my share of 3rd base coaches throw up the stop sign whie a runner is going full throttle, so that isn't even an excuse. It wasn't raining or the conditions weren't bad, so to come up with that kind of excuse is just plain ridiculous. As for the 70% your talking about, that's a pretty weak argument. Most hitters are gonna fail 70% of the time, everyone knows that, but I would rather have my cleanup hitter, who is making about 14 million a year, face a pitcher who was clearly struggling in that inning, and had already given up 2 runs. I'd much rather hav Paulie coming up with men on 2nd and 3rd, then try to force a run to score when it was visible to everyone that, there was no way Iguchi was gonna score. If Cora is doing his job then he is watching to see if Sanders get to the ball cleanly, which he did, then he watches the relay throw to see if it was off line,which it wasn't it was a strike to Grudz. Cora should have held him up as soon as he saw Sanders field that ball cleanly!!! It wasn't absolutely the right decision, it was absolutely the wrong decision and one of the dumbest decisions I have see since the last time Cora sent someone and was he was out by a mile. If I am gonna gamble I want a guy batting .300 with 83rbi and men on 2nd and 3rd, against a pitcher with an ERA of 8 who had already given up 2 runs in the inning. I don't want to gamble on a 3rd base coach sending a runner when he shouldn't have.
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  #167  
Old 08-16-2006, 03:01 PM
soxinem1 soxinem1 is offline
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Originally Posted by dagotony06
Yes the decision does have to be made well before. And the wrong decision was made. Sanders got to the ball cleanly, didn't bobble it, the throw was perfect, Cora should have seen that, and he also should have seen Grudz handled the relay perfectly. I have seen my share of 3rd base coaches throw up the stop sign whie a runner is going full throttle, so that isn't even an excuse. It wasn't raining or the conditions weren't bad, so to come up with that kind of excuse is just plain ridiculous. As for the 70% your talking about, that's a pretty weak argument. Most hitters are gonna fail 70% of the time, everyone knows that, but I would rather have my cleanup hitter, who is making about 14 million a year, face a pitcher who was clearly struggling in that inning, and had already given up 2 runs. I'd much rather hav Paulie coming up with men on 2nd and 3rd, then try to force a run to score when it was visible to everyone that, there was no way Iguchi was gonna score. If Cora is doing his job then he is watching to see if Sanders get to the ball cleanly, which he did, then he watches the relay throw to see if it was off line,which it wasn't it was a strike to Grudz. Cora should have held him up as soon as he saw Sanders field that ball cleanly!!! It wasn't absolutely the right decision, it was absolutely the wrong decision and one of the dumbest decisions I have see since the last time Cora sent someone and was he was out by a mile. If I am gonna gamble I want a guy batting .300 with 83rbi and men on 2nd and 3rd, against a pitcher with an ERA of 8 who had already given up 2 runs in the inning. I don't want to gamble on a 3rd base coach sending a runner when he shouldn't have.
I agree with #2 on this one. With two outs, runners are instructed to be running full throttle. While I am not especially fond of Cora's judgement sometimes, this one was warranted.

I was more concerned with the feeble impatient swings most of our hitters displayed. If they exhibited the hitting talent they possess, no way that one play is even a key component of this game.
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  #168  
Old 08-16-2006, 03:07 PM
Baby Fisk Baby Fisk is offline
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Originally Posted by soxinem1
I was there last night and saw it all. but I have to note, he was not a Sox fan, he was a

BANDWAGON JUMPER!!!!!
Did he get tossed or did he make a run for it? On TV they showed him walking up the steps without any escort.

BTW, did anyone get the KC feed for this game? They spent almost an entire inning zoomed in on one Sox fan who was wolfing down some food. The announcers were making some classless comments about the guy, making him out like some kind of pig -- the sorts of things they wouldn't have had the guts to say to the guy's face (he was a tough-guy type who happened to be chowing down on a hot dog).
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  #169  
Old 08-16-2006, 03:17 PM
dagotony06 dagotony06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soxinem1
I agree with #2 on this one. With two outs, runners are instructed to be running full throttle. While I am not especially fond of Cora's judgement sometimes, this one was warranted.

I was more concerned with the feeble impatient swings most of our hitters displayed. If they exhibited the hitting talent they possess, no way that one play is even a key component of this game.
I agree runners should be running full throttle also. I believe they should always being running full throttle, so what's your point. It wasn't warranted. Iguchi isn't exactly fleet of foot to begin with, so to say it was the right call to send a runner when the second baseman has the ball in his hand and the runner is just hitting third is just plain dumb. That one play took the momentum and gave it to the Royals, and they come right back in the top of the 6th and score 2 runs, and we didn't threaten the rest of the game. Don't you think players get annoyed when a coach makes a stupid decision, that they know should have never been made, and takes you out of a potentially big inning. Plus you have a pitcher who has a hard time getting through six innings in the first place, and he has to go out in the 6th inning after that call of sending the runner and getting thrown out at home. I mean, Cora has to be aware of all the situations, he just isn't a very smart man when it comes down to coaching 3rd. He would be better at first base, and maybe have Raines at third. He was a better baserunner in his carrer. Cora wasn't the smartest baserunner when he played.

For you to say that wasn't a key component, I don't know what game you were watching. That was the game in my eyes. They were displaying thier hitting talent in the fifth, by scoring two runs and potentially more, but Cora makes that terrible decision and kills the rally. But they were getting to Hernandez in the fifth. Watch the replay of the game it's on right now, you will see how much of a KEY COMPONENT that play was!!!!
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  #170  
Old 08-16-2006, 04:19 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ol' No. 2
Is it just me or do they do this every game after a blowout?
I hadn't really considered that. I definitely think the days where they play poor defense are the same days where they give away at-bats.

Maybe Dye was still bothered after being hit by a pitch Monday night, but I thought last night's game was an uncharacteristically poor performance for him. He wasn't alone, but in particular, he seemed to symbolize the struggles of the team throughout this game.
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  #171  
Old 08-16-2006, 05:06 PM
soxinem1 soxinem1 is offline
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Originally Posted by dagotony06
I agree runners should be running full throttle also. I believe they should always being running full throttle, so what's your point. It wasn't warranted. Iguchi isn't exactly fleet of foot to begin with, so to say it was the right call to send a runner when the second baseman has the ball in his hand and the runner is just hitting third is just plain dumb. That one play took the momentum and gave it to the Royals, and they come right back in the top of the 6th and score 2 runs, and we didn't threaten the rest of the game. Don't you think players get annoyed when a coach makes a stupid decision, that they know should have never been made, and takes you out of a potentially big inning. Plus you have a pitcher who has a hard time getting through six innings in the first place, and he has to go out in the 6th inning after that call of sending the runner and getting thrown out at home. I mean, Cora has to be aware of all the situations, he just isn't a very smart man when it comes down to coaching 3rd. He would be better at first base, and maybe have Raines at third. He was a better baserunner in his carrer. Cora wasn't the smartest baserunner when he played.

For you to say that wasn't a key component, I don't know what game you were watching. That was the game in my eyes. They were displaying thier hitting talent in the fifth, by scoring two runs and potentially more, but Cora makes that terrible decision and kills the rally. But they were getting to Hernandez in the fifth. Watch the replay of the game it's on right now, you will see how much of a KEY COMPONENT that play was!!!!
I think Vasquez serving up his usual sixth inning bomb and Dye's blowing the catch in right were more key than this.

Guys get thrown out on the bases all the time, and against a pitcher with a 8+ ERA coming in, they could have swung the bats better.

And by the way, I was at this game, so I watched everything in front of me. Iguchi is not slow. It was just a perfectly executed play. Iguchi was a little past half-way when Grudzielanek made the throw. Get over it.
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  #172  
Old 08-16-2006, 06:50 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soxinem1
Can't this team do anything to make us happy?
On the contrary, I am very happy. The Tiger are having "one of those years" and the White Sox are right there for the playoffs not to mention the division.

From time to time I may be critical but I care; as opposed to those who seem to do neither (see the denizens at 1060 W Addison St Chicago Illinois for a clue).
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Last edited by Grzegorz; 08-16-2006 at 07:56 PM.
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  #173  
Old 08-16-2006, 07:56 PM
dagotony06 dagotony06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soxinem1
I think Vasquez serving up his usual sixth inning bomb and Dye's blowing the catch in right were more key than this.

Guys get thrown out on the bases all the time, and against a pitcher with a 8+ ERA coming in, they could have swung the bats better.

And by the way, I was at this game, so I watched everything in front of me. Iguchi is not slow. It was just a perfectly executed play. Iguchi was a little past half-way when Grudzielanek made the throw. Get over it.
You must have been drunk, cause replays show he wasn't no where near half way. I'll get over it when I feel like it!!!
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  #174  
Old 08-17-2006, 10:42 PM
soxinem1 soxinem1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz
On the contrary, I am very happy. The Tiger are having "one of those years" and the White Sox are right there for the playoffs not to mention the division.

From time to time I may be critical but I care; as opposed to those who seem to do neither (see the denizens at 1060 W Addison St Chicago Illinois for a clue).
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