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  #1  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:19 AM
32nd&Wallace 32nd&Wallace is offline
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Default Was Manuel that bad?

The Best/Worst manager thread inspired me to create this new thread about jerry manuel. namely, was he that bad? if so, what was his problem. a lot of people say larussa was their favorite manager, but manuel accomplished just as much. i am also a bit surprised that manuel has not found another job.

also, is there a hawk/manuel fued? it seems hawk has had no problem in the last two years sounding off on manuel - the latest was after the sox won the ws on north's show. how long does their rift go back because in 2000 he was praising the guy in an SI article.
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  #2  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:20 AM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Yes.
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  #3  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:22 AM
lostletters lostletters is offline
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Yes. There is a list of reasons why, namely how he treated his young pitchers.

I could go on, but his general baseball philosophy (bashball) did not help the sox.

He did have winning seasons, but he also got us nowhere. He had an unbalanced team and prefered ego's and HRs to good solid defence and pitching.

He did not inspire any confidence in his players, and was generally a bad manager.
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  #4  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:28 AM
bahn1225 bahn1225 is offline
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Manuel was acceptable by MLB standards.
The problem is "acceptable" does not win championships.

For a prime example of this type of manager,
check out the dude working eight miles North.
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  #5  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:31 AM
HotelWhiteSox HotelWhiteSox is offline
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I kind of liked him, I mean, I think that happens with every coach once you start losing. I guess he was more laid back and let things play out, rather than trying to make something happen, but his clubs were the DH at a majority of the positions, station to station type clubs. He played everything by the book, I guess it was the safe way to go, but that was the criticism towards the end of his run and I think every one agreed that he had to go at the time he was fired, if not earlier.

As far as Hawk, he's just the corporate kiss ass. I don't think everyone was sold on Ozzie and he went on a bash Manuel tour. I guess he didn't agree with some of his moves, but I don't know of any other feud. He lost all credibility with me after arguing on a sports radio show two or three years ago that Willie Harris was ready to start at 2B at the major league level and that the problem was that he was asked to bunt too much (shot at Manuel). No, he tried to bunt so often because he couldn't take ML pitching out of the infield. Also, he's always been mad about the way Manuel treated Garland, saying he'd always have to look over his shoulder, but Garland sucked 3-4 years ago, and he was too young to keep him in those situations when the games were on the line, it's not like the division wasn't out of reach and it wasn't garbage time.
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  #6  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:46 AM
kwolf68 kwolf68 is offline
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Jerry was a wonderful manager.
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  #7  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:48 AM
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TornLabrum TornLabrum is offline
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In a word: yes. Manuel was a terrible manager.

Who can forget Neal Cotts pitching in game 3 of that Yankees series instead of Buehrle, with predictable results. Turns out we could have used another win there.

Then there was his tinkering with lineups because for him, April through the All-Star Break was time to experiment to find out what your regular lineup should be.

Then there was his handling of Jon Garland in 2003. He never let the guy pitch out of a jam. Nice confidence builder that.
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  #8  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:53 AM
mike squires mike squires is offline
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Manuel was WAY too laid back for my style. Even when he went out and argued it was usually fake and looked as if he was going through the motions making it look like he cared. He jumbled the lineup way too much and did not use his starting or bullpen pitching effectivly. I never liked him.
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:58 AM
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TornLabrum TornLabrum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike squires
Manuel was WAY too laid back for my style. Even when he went out and argued it was usually fake and looked as if he was going through the motions making it look like he cared. He jumbled the lineup way too much and did not use his starting or bullpen pitching effectivly. I never liked him.
There's a reason I hung the nickname "Gen. Disarray" on him.
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:59 AM
SOXSINCE'70 SOXSINCE'70 is offline
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Post Here comes my "19th Nervous Breakdown"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TornLabrum
In a word: yes. Manuel was a terrible manager.

Who can forget Neal Cotts pitching in game 3 of that Yankees series instead of Buehrle, with predictable results. Turns out we could have used another win there.

Then there was his tinkering with lineups because for him, April through the All-Star Break was time to experiment to find out what your regular lineup should be.

Then there was his handling of Jon Garland in 2003. He never let the guy pitch out of a jam. Nice confidence builder that.
Thanks for echoing my thoughts,TL.Might I also bring up
how he forgot to pich run for Konerko in the 9th inning of a
2003 loss (Carlos Lee practically had to wake him up to remind
him a pich runner wouldn't be a bad idea,IIRC).Of course,there
was his stubborn stand with sending Belly Crotch (er...uh....
Billy Koch) out for a save opportunity when it was apparent there
was nothing left in his tank.I could go on and on and on,
but i'll spare the posters and stop here.
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  #11  
Old 12-27-2005, 11:01 AM
SOXSINCE'70 SOXSINCE'70 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornLabrum
There's a reason I hung the nickname "Gen. Disarray" on him.
So then KW was "Captain Chaos",correct??
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  #12  
Old 12-27-2005, 11:02 AM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Where's PHG when you need him?

Manuel did nothing right that you would want from a manager. He wasn't a guy people wanted to play for. He wasn't fundamentally sound. He didn't maximize play from rookies. He didn't keep vets healthy and happy.

Getting rid of Manuel was the right thing to do. I'd be surprised if he gets a job as a MLB manager anytime soon.
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  #13  
Old 12-27-2005, 11:04 AM
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TornLabrum TornLabrum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOXSINCE'70
So then KW was "Captain Chaos",correct??
Close: Prof. Chaos. But I'll never call him that again.
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  #14  
Old 12-27-2005, 11:07 AM
SOXSINCE'70 SOXSINCE'70 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornLabrum
Close: Prof. Chaos. But I'll never call him that again.
Thanks.My mistake.Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you!
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  #15  
Old 12-27-2005, 11:08 AM
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TornLabrum TornLabrum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOXSINCE'70
Thanks.My mistake.Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you!
Back atcha.
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