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  #31  
Old 05-17-2005, 11:08 AM
maurice maurice is offline
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Anderson and Sweeney both are looking good so far this year . . .
- Anderson: .307 / .377 / .555
- Sweeney: .337 / .402 / .410

One significant difference is that Anderson is MLB-ready, while Sweeney still has a ways to go . . . especially in the power department. Given Sweeney's age, frame, and high level of play, he could eventually develop into a better hitter than Anderson (with bonus points for batting lefty), but we'll have to wait and see.

IMHO, Anderson will be starting for the Sox next year (or sooner), and Everett could be at 1B next year.
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  #32  
Old 05-17-2005, 12:23 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maurice
IMHO, Anderson will be starting for the Sox next year (or sooner), and Everett could be at 1B next year.
Brings up an interesting idea...

After the trade dealine for first-year FA-signed players expires, maybe the Sox could package Dye and Konerko for Helton? That would eb the equivalent of half of Konerko's 8+ Million and Dye's 6 million a year next year and remaining 3 this year? Could help with the financial barriers of a deal with Colorado...

Then you could bring up Brian Anderson or move your OF around to get Carl in the line-up every day?
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  #33  
Old 05-17-2005, 01:15 PM
SoxxoS SoxxoS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar68
Brings up an interesting idea...

After the trade dealine for first-year FA-signed players expires, maybe the Sox could package Dye and Konerko for Helton? That would eb the equivalent of half of Konerko's 8+ Million and Dye's 6 million a year next year and remaining 3 this year? Could help with the financial barriers of a deal with Colorado...

Then you could bring up Brian Anderson or move your OF around to get Carl in the line-up every day?
I dont know how Colorado could rationalize trading their best player in franchise history for garbage and half-season garbage in Konerko. That just seems like a complete PR nightmare. There next marketable player after Helton is Clint Barmes.
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  #34  
Old 05-17-2005, 01:25 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxxoS
I dont know how Colorado could rationalize trading their best player in franchise history for garbage and half-season garbage in Konerko. That just seems like a complete PR nightmare. There next marketable player after Helton is Clint Barmes.
Yeah, because they're winning so many games?

Getting out from under his contract (or most of it) is reason enough. How did Pittsburg rationalize trading Giles and Kendall? Taking Konerko and Dye is 2 short-term contracts. I didn't say that is all that would be offerred in the trade, I'm sure we'd have to throw in a couple prospects (Rogowski, Tracey, etc) in turn for more money thrown in on their side.

For those saying we can't afford to pick up his contract, how much different is paying Maggs 14 million and Konerko 8 million compared to Helton + Brian Anderson? or Helton + Ryan Sweeney? Or Helton + Pods?

However you care to rationalize it, this organization was willing to make that financial committment to Maggs for 5 years. Helton's a better all-around hitter than Maggs, ferchrissakes, and it ain't close.
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  #35  
Old 05-17-2005, 01:44 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar68
Yeah, because they're winning so many games?

Getting out from under his contract (or most of it) is reason enough. How did Pittsburg rationalize trading Giles and Kendall? Taking Konerko and Dye is 2 short-term contracts. I didn't say that is all that would be offerred in the trade, I'm sure we'd have to throw in a couple prospects (Rogowski, Tracey, etc) in turn for more money thrown in on their side.

For those saying we can't afford to pick up his contract, how much different is paying Maggs 14 million and Konerko 8 million compared to Helton + Brian Anderson? or Helton + Ryan Sweeney? Or Helton + Pods?

However you care to rationalize it, this organization was willing to make that financial committment to Maggs for 5 years. Helton's a better all-around hitter than Maggs, ferchrissakes, and it ain't close.
Holy schnikes! While clearly this is a deeppink fantasy, are you willing to insert yourself into the negotiations with Colorado's GM to make it happen?
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  #36  
Old 05-17-2005, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar68
Yeah, because they're winning so many games?

Getting out from under his contract (or most of it) is reason enough. How did Pittsburg rationalize trading Giles and Kendall? Taking Konerko and Dye is 2 short-term contracts. I didn't say that is all that would be offerred in the trade, I'm sure we'd have to throw in a couple prospects (Rogowski, Tracey, etc) in turn for more money thrown in on their side.

For those saying we can't afford to pick up his contract, how much different is paying Maggs 14 million and Konerko 8 million compared to Helton + Brian Anderson? or Helton + Ryan Sweeney? Or Helton + Pods?

However you care to rationalize it, this organization was willing to make that financial committment to Maggs for 5 years. Helton's a better all-around hitter than Maggs, ferchrissakes, and it ain't close.
I think Colorado would do this or something similar in a heartbeat. But the length of Helton's contract will give any GM pause. He'll be 37 by the time the contract is up, making it very possible they could wind up with big dollars committed to a player who's not producing or not even playing. That's a big risk and probably unnecessary when they've got plenty of good 1B prospects in the minors.
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  #37  
Old 05-17-2005, 02:14 PM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' No. 2
I think Colorado would do this or something similar in a heartbeat. But the length of Helton's contract will give any GM pause. He'll be 37 by the time the contract is up, making it very possible they could wind up with big dollars committed to a player who's not producing or not even playing. That's a big risk and probably unnecessary when they've got plenty of good 1B prospects in the minors.
I don't know....I like the guys we have, but Helton's proven, and is likely to be able to continue to put up #s for at least 3-5 more years, esp if he can shift to DH later on. If you're lucky, the guys you have in the minors right now will put up similar #s to what Helton will in 2009. But none of them's going to help win a title this year or next.

So I'm willing to sacrifice the long-term potential for the short and medium term guarantee. It all hinges on the $$$. If you can get enough back from Colorado, it's a better FA signing than anything the Sox could do after 2005, and you get the 2005 benefit.
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  #38  
Old 05-17-2005, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight #24
I don't know....I like the guys we have, but Helton's proven, and is likely to be able to continue to put up #s for at least 3-5 more years, esp if he can shift to DH later on. If you're lucky, the guys you have in the minors right now will put up similar #s to what Helton will in 2009. But none of them's going to help win a title this year or next.

So I'm willing to sacrifice the long-term potential for the short and medium term guarantee. It all hinges on the $$$. If you can get enough back from Colorado, it's a better FA signing than anything the Sox could do after 2005, and you get the 2005 benefit.
But how much cash can you get from Colorado? $10M works out to only $2M a year from 2006-2011. That still makes him pretty pricey and you still have a big risk in the later years.
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  #39  
Old 05-17-2005, 02:47 PM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' No. 2
But how much cash can you get from Colorado? $10M works out to only $2M a year from 2006-2011. That still makes him pretty pricey and you still have a big risk in the later years.
You're right. But in a contract that's got about $100mil remaining, I don't think Colorado expects to get anything back for him if they're only sending $10mil over. In that case, they'll send him to Baltimore where Angelos is reportedly willing to take on the whole deal.

But if they want good prospects, it'll cost them. Mike Hampton was traded and they took on $52mil to make it happen. I have no basis in fact, but I'd guess that giving $30mil in cash+salaries would be reasonable to them in exchange for 1 top prospect and a couple of pretty good ones. If it is only in the $10mil range, then I wouldn't do it unless JR is committing to a very sizeable long term payroll bump.
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  #40  
Old 05-17-2005, 02:52 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo
Holy schnikes! While clearly this is a deeppink fantasy, are you willing to insert yourself into the negotiations with Colorado's GM to make it happen?
I don't know what Colorado is currently asking for, but how much money changes hands will have a huge effect on what kind of players they get in return.

It's a ginormous contract and I'm sure Colorado knows they will never get market value for his talent because of that contract.

That said, I'd be willing to do quite a lot to acquire a .330+ - 30 - 120 player who has an OPS that hovers around 1.000 and .440 OBP.

Again, consider what the organization was willing to commit to Ordonez/Konerko, it was over 20 million a year. If you can unload Dye's 18 remaining months and Konerko's half season contract, you end up with a pretty nice financial sheet.

I understand the concerns over paying him when he's 37, but he's a Gold Glove quality first baseman and perennial All-Star. He's also hasn't had a terrible injury history and plays a less demanding position, and get's by on his mechanics and talent rather than physical strength or speed, the quicker aspects to diminish.

Again, I'm very interested to see if they move him, what they get for him and how mauch cash they'll have to give up to do it.
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  #41  
Old 05-17-2005, 03:07 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar68
Again, I'm very interested to see if they move him, what they get for him and how mauch cash they'll have to give up to do it.
Randar, count me as being on board. Need room for a co-pilot on the "bench or trade Paul Konerko club" bandwagon?

That being said, what do you think are the chances we see Helton playing first base at 35th and Shields this season?
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  #42  
Old 05-17-2005, 03:37 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo
Randar, count me as being on board. Need room for a co-pilot on the "bench or trade Paul Konerko club" bandwagon?

That being said, what do you think are the chances we see Helton playing first base at 35th and Shields this season?
There's always room on board, but beware, I also started the "Aaron Rowand is a AAAA LF'er" Club, LOL!

The odds? Probably not all that great given the contract and such, so it really should be in deeppink, but the original thread was a total speculation anyhow.

It's nice to have this convo in here without most of the usual spammers filling it up with tripe, LOL!
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  #43  
Old 05-17-2005, 03:45 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar68
There's always room on board, but beware, I also started the "Aaron Rowand is a AAAA LF'er" Club, LOL!
I've been meaning to ask you about that....


... especially since I was on board with you on that one too, even if I wasn't as vocal about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar68
It's nice to have this convo in here without most of the usual spammers filling it up with tripe, LOL!
Agreed. I especially love the spam from the resident Konerko and Sox player worshippers, who wouldn't trade Paulie or even a fifth-rate 34 year-old Sox "prospect" straight up for a package of Clemens, Prior, Helton and $100 million. They think just because a player is in the Sox organization, they must be untouchable and HOF-bound.
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  #44  
Old 05-17-2005, 03:48 PM
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A related question:

What is the likelihood that Anderson could produce at the major league level if they brought him up mid-season? No matter how well a guy does in AAA, it's always a risk. If Dye continues to struggle, should they think about finding a way to get Anderson up to see what he can do?
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  #45  
Old 05-17-2005, 05:21 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' No. 2
A related question:

What is the likelihood that Anderson could produce at the major league level if they brought him up mid-season? No matter how well a guy does in AAA, it's always a risk. If Dye continues to struggle, should they think about finding a way to get Anderson up to see what he can do?
What is "produce?" I think he's a lock to hit .270 if you brought him up today. Every time I think he's going to temporarily struggle with a move up he comes out and hits .320 from start to finish, LOL!

I think his K rate will be high, especially initially, but he has shown to be someone who makes adjustments and makes them quickly. Heck, I'm not convinced Ryan Sweeney isn't a better option today than the Paul Konerko we've been watching stroll to the plate the last 4 weeks.

And hey, moving Dye to give Anderson a shot is all part of my "Trade PK + Dye + Rogo + Tracey + whoever it takes to some degree for Todd Helton" plan. LOL!

Last edited by Randar68; 05-17-2005 at 05:26 PM.
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