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  #1  
Old 12-06-2004, 03:36 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Default How do we know Frank never juiced?

Some on this board have called for the 2000 MVP to be retroactively awarded to Frank instead of Giambi, which is an interesting argument -- if it can in fact be proven that Frank didn't use.

I'm not accusing him and I've never seen him implicated, but how do we know that Frank's clean?
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2004, 03:38 PM
Iguana775 Iguana775 is offline
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cause he has always been a big guy. he didnt just ballon up like Bonds and Sosa.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2004, 03:42 PM
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PaleHoseGeorge PaleHoseGeorge is offline
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We don't need to prove Frank didn't take steroids.
Jason Giambi confessed to using steroids.

Frank was runner-up to Giambi.
Giambi's MVP award is expunged.
Frank is the new winner.

End of story.
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  #4  
Old 12-06-2004, 03:42 PM
munchman33 munchman33 is offline
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And lets face it. Guys on steroids tend not to be as fat as Frank either.
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  #5  
Old 12-06-2004, 03:45 PM
bennyw41 bennyw41 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleHoseGeorge
We don't need to prove Frank didn't take steroids.
Jason Giambi confessed to using steroids.

Frank was runner-up to Giambi.
Giambi's MVP award is expunged.
Frank is the new winner.

End of story.
Thank you for the logical response.

The other one by Iguana is just horribly illogical.
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2004, 03:45 PM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Reason #1: No positive tests or public admissions

Reason #2: No physical indications

Reason #3: No substantial leap in performance, just a relatively steady high level of production

Reason #4: His quite public anti-steroid stance and (reported) leadership of the movement to skip the test in ST and force expanded testing for everyone

Reason #5: He's Frank friggin Thomas
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2004, 03:45 PM
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Tekijawa Tekijawa is offline
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Users also tend to be a little more aggressive than to try and side step a catcher at home while being 275 pounds every freaking time he gets the chance... I'd pay about a million and a half dollars to see him once take a catcher out at home!

Last edited by Tekijawa; 12-06-2004 at 03:59 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2004, 03:53 PM
StillMissOzzie StillMissOzzie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennyw41
Thank you for the logical response.

The other one by Iguana is just horribly illogical.
Not really. Have you seen any of the early-in-their-career pictures of Bonds and Sosa compared to their 1998-2002 state? Or Giambi and Sosa in 2000 vs. Giambi and Sosa in 2004, on the way down again?

SMO

100% barley juice!
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2004, 04:13 PM
Baby Fisk Baby Fisk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekijawa
I'd pay about a million and a half dollars to see him once take a catcher out at home!
I'd provide matching funds if it would help make that happen.
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2004, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleHoseGeorge
We don't need to prove Frank didn't take steroids.
Jason Giambi confessed to using steroids.

Frank was runner-up to Giambi.
Giambi's MVP award is expunged.
Frank is the new winner.

End of story.
PHG with a SLAM DUNK....KABOOM
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  #11  
Old 12-06-2004, 04:42 PM
bc2k bc2k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight #24
Reason #1: No positive tests or public admissions

Reason #2: No physical indications

Reason #3: No substantial leap in performance, just a relatively steady high level of production

Reason #4: His quite public anti-steroid stance and (reported) leadership of the movement to skip the test in ST and force expanded testing for everyone

Reason #5: He's Frank friggin Thomas
To add to Reason #3: Frank Thomas's production has been consistent with his age. His best seasons were during his prime years, while his slight decline has come as he aged.
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2004, 04:47 PM
ondafarm ondafarm is offline
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Frank Thomas just doesn't look like a juicer, I've heard from several players (including this recent posting by Jack McDowell http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns) that juicers are quite evident.

Frank has been big for as long as anyone can recall and his power has been quite consistent. Sure, he should be tested but don't hold your breath, he's clean.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2004, 04:49 PM
bennyw41 bennyw41 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillMissOzzie
Not really. Have you seen any of the early-in-their-career pictures of Bonds and Sosa compared to their 1998-2002 state? Or Giambi and Sosa in 2000 vs. Giambi and Sosa in 2004, on the way down again?

SMO

100% barley juice!
No no no, you're completely missing my point. I 100 percent agree with Frank not being juiced, but to say that the only reason we know he isn't juiced is because of two people being juiced? It just doesn't add up. You can't say because frank is big for more than 2 years that he is clean. You would have to use other explanations, which there are many. 1. Being an avid weight lifter 2. Denouncing steroids for many more years than this scandel. 3. Playing football, so on and so on. I just didn't like the way Iguana formulated his argument.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2004, 04:54 PM
mweflen mweflen is offline
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Yes, there are some big arguments in favor of Frank's clean status.


-No big gains or losses in size or performance.

-No aggressiveness (anyone recall a little Roger Clemes-Mike Piazza fracas? 50 bucks says Clemens was juicing).

-Consistent anti-steroid stance/whining (and face it, Frank isn't smart enough in a Public Relations sense to 'pretend' to be upset by steroids in an attempt to hid his own usage. He's about the most PR-inept person in the world behind Uncle Jerry.)

Frank is easily the guy I would least suspect on the Sox. If I had to pick one guy on the Sox who I suspected, it would be Manos or Maggs.
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2004, 05:34 PM
fquaye149 fquaye149 is offline
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every argument for frank's non-use has already been made and made well and eloquently by previous posters.

To respond to the question, however, we DON'T know that Frank never juiced. There's no way we can no. Period. Only Frank knows for sure that he never juiced. However you can say that about anyone in baseball...Willie Harris, Jeff Weaver, Cecil Fielder...so what's the point of asking about Frank?

THERE IS JUST NO EVIDENCE THAT FRANK HAS USED STEROIDS. Not even circumstantial. The closest you can get is that he's been injured a couple of times. But that is flimsy at best.

You might as well ask:
How do we know Frank never used Speed or Crack or killed a man?

we don't, but why would we think he did?
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