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  #61  
Old 02-24-2005, 11:53 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne030
caruso gets a pass in my book.....he beat the dubs with a homer in the basket at the urinal. ....
When Cubs fans were talking about Sosa hitting a lot of home runs, they shut up when I said, "Big deal. Mike Caruso hit a home run in Wrigley Field."

I think that was half his career output.
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  #62  
Old 02-25-2005, 11:10 AM
SoxxoS SoxxoS is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog
When Cubs fans were talking about Sosa hitting a lot of home runs, they shut up when I said, "Big deal. Mike Caruso hit a home run in Wrigley Field."

I think that was half his career output.
How can anyone forget opening day at Texas in 1999...

I was so excited...it was opening day, and we had a completely different team. I was REALLY excited to see the highly touted Caruso play SS. First pitch of game, hit to Caruso. Booted. That is when I did my best:



Impression, when he looked into the window after Willie Mays Hayes got picked off.
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  #63  
Old 02-25-2005, 01:35 PM
charlotteknights charlotteknights is offline
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having watched the triple A team for Chicago ever since they have come to Charlotte, I have to say that the White Sox themselves have been the bust on alot of the players. Miles a bust? Made the all star team while in Charlotte, hitting over 300, double A player of the year before, and we trade him to the Rockies where he hit over 300 for them. Daryl Boston? White Sox have him as a minor league rover, teaching their farm teams......won't say any more on that. Wells and Fogg leave the Sox and have both been pretty succesful. You're going to see the same thing with Majewski this coming year. Once he settles down he'll be okay. Just so you know, even though I agree that he was a huge bust, Dalero didn't want to be a pitcher. White Sox p.c. Kirk Champion insisted that they try and pitch him because of his weak bat. Alot goes on at this level that gets twisted and misreported. I think that, unless the White Sox mess it up, they have great potential coming up. Kenny Williams, in my opinion, is one of the biggest bust that they've had. I think Ozzie will have greater input than past managers, but Williams and his crone Dave Wilder can turn things up in a hurry.
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  #64  
Old 02-25-2005, 02:54 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlotteknights
having watched the triple A team for Chicago ever since they have come to Charlotte, I have to say that the White Sox themselves have been the bust on alot of the players. Miles a bust? Made the all star team while in Charlotte, hitting over 300, double A player of the year before, and we trade him to the Rockies where he hit over 300 for them. Daryl Boston? White Sox have him as a minor league rover, teaching their farm teams......won't say any more on that. Wells and Fogg leave the Sox and have both been pretty succesful. You're going to see the same thing with Majewski this coming year. Once he settles down he'll be okay. Just so you know, even though I agree that he was a huge bust, Dalero didn't want to be a pitcher. White Sox p.c. Kirk Champion insisted that they try and pitch him because of his weak bat. Alot goes on at this level that gets twisted and misreported. I think that, unless the White Sox mess it up, they have great potential coming up. Kenny Williams, in my opinion, is one of the biggest bust that they've had. I think Ozzie will have greater input than past managers, but Williams and his crone Dave Wilder can turn things up in a hurry.
I think there are some terrifically unfair remarks in this post.

Wells, Fogg, Dallero, Miles? That's the basis for the Sox being failures?

It's understandable that the Charlotte people are unhappy with the way Williams goes about his business. He's clearly less concerned about the Knight's well-being. Trading so many high-level prospects, concerned more about his MLB roster, and using Birmingham as the launching pad for so many of their prospects...

However, if you talk to the people in Birmingham or Winston-Salem, I think you'll find the polar-opposite viewpoint from my experience.
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  #65  
Old 02-25-2005, 03:46 PM
maurice maurice is offline
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Wells is a pretty good ptcher, but Fogg blows, and Majewski has been passed around more than Ryan Sandberg's wife. And then there's Aaron Miles. . . .

:iverson
Aaron Miles. Are we really talking about Aaron Miles? Come on man -- Aaron Miles?!?

It's hard to cry over the loss of a fellow with a career 700 OPS, little defense, little speed, and little power. Miles hit .293 in 2004, but he had a .329 OBP and only a .368 SLG while playing his home games in Coors Field. Miles' road numbers were .277 / .301 / .348. (Just for the sake of comparison, Juan Uribe was .283 / .327 / .506 with outstanding defense at three IF positions.) The Rockies were so pleased with Miles' performance, that they demoted him to AAA mid-season, where he continued to post a decent average, but still failed to show power or the ability to take a walk. While you'd generally expect a rookie to improve, Miles is a 28-year-old career minor leaguer with very limited tools.
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  #66  
Old 02-25-2005, 06:04 PM
charlotteknights charlotteknights is offline
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I know that you all think that all we do is whine down here in Charlotte, but the fact is that since Kenny Williams has taken over, Charlotte is lucky to have a team that can play 500 ball. And don't give me the stuff that it's all about the majors and not the minors. If that were so, then why did they have such a time finding a 5th starter last year? Because they all sucked down here. Even a bad Fogg would have been better than the crap we had in that spot last year. Look, I'm a huge White Sox fan and want us to go the whole way this year. I just think that if you look at other teams minors, Columbus, Pawtucket, their triple A teams are stacked. I know because they usually beat the hell out of us. I think it's great using Birmingham as a launching pad but when they take these guys up too early and they crash and burn, they send them to us, wasted. That's why we're all so happy that Cotts has made it. Then there's Dave Wilder, Kenny's top man from Stanford. He sends such crap here that it's impossible for the coaches to do anything with them. We'll see this year what happens. A new set of coaches who probably aren't burned out by Wilder's games. Very few teams that he was with has anything nice to say about him, but hey, we'll take him. Just like the Jeff Judan fiasco and the Jose Canseco fiasco. I wish all the guys in Spring training good luck and hope that they do so well that they won't need any of our guys down here.
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  #67  
Old 02-26-2005, 02:26 AM
munchman33 munchman33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlotteknights
I know that you all think that all we do is whine down here in Charlotte, but the fact is that since Kenny Williams has taken over, Charlotte is lucky to have a team that can play 500 ball. And don't give me the stuff that it's all about the majors and not the minors. If that were so, then why did they have such a time finding a 5th starter last year? Because they all sucked down here. Even a bad Fogg would have been better than the crap we had in that spot last year. Look, I'm a huge White Sox fan and want us to go the whole way this year. I just think that if you look at other teams minors, Columbus, Pawtucket, their triple A teams are stacked. I know because they usually beat the hell out of us. I think it's great using Birmingham as a launching pad but when they take these guys up too early and they crash and burn, they send them to us, wasted. That's why we're all so happy that Cotts has made it. Then there's Dave Wilder, Kenny's top man from Stanford. He sends such crap here that it's impossible for the coaches to do anything with them. We'll see this year what happens. A new set of coaches who probably aren't burned out by Wilder's games. Very few teams that he was with has anything nice to say about him, but hey, we'll take him. Just like the Jeff Judan fiasco and the Jose Canseco fiasco. I wish all the guys in Spring training good luck and hope that they do so well that they won't need any of our guys down here.
You'll feel a lot different once B-Mac and Honel are in the Charlotte rotation.
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  #68  
Old 02-26-2005, 08:35 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchman33
You'll feel a lot different once B-Mac and Honel are in the Charlotte rotation.
And if they aren't, or are only there a short while, everyone will complain and cry about Williams. Welcome the world of mid-market teams trying to compete...

It sucks for their AAA team, and I've been there and seen it in person. What you're saying is basically the bitter attitude everyone I've talked to in Charlotte has had. However, I don't find, from the MLB level, anything wrong with what KW has done in relation to AAA. It's not pretty at times and you wind up with quite a few journeymen and roster-fillers.

No, Charlotte basically had only a guy or 2 in the bullpen some night, and that sucks, don't get me wrong. What do you want KW to do? Sit around on his hands and wait for all the mediocre-at-best prospects you mentioned do squat and never benefit the MLB club?

Like I said, if you ask Birmingham, W-S, or Bristol if they are impressed with the way KW brings talent through there, I doubt you'll find too many complaints.

Your complaints are valid, but inferring that KW is a bad GM because he hasn't catered to the AAA team is naive at best...
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  #69  
Old 02-27-2005, 04:13 PM
charlotteknights charlotteknights is offline
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Maybe Bristol, Winston, and Birmingham don't have any complaints about williams; by the time the talent gets to Charlotte it's either been traded away or called up prematurely. Some, I do agree do make it to the bigs from there. However, that does not erase the fact that when Williams took over in Chicago they were Central Division Champions. I can't recall them winning since he's been there. Maybe I missed it. So if the talent is so good in Birmingham, why doesn't it translate to the majors? It sure isn't coming here. I understand completely the pecking order with the farm teams and agree that there is great talent in Birmingham. It just infuriates us Charlotteans when he brags about how deep his farm team is. Sure, it will be great if BMac comes here, but knowing Kenny, he'll go straight up to Chicago. And the most frustrating thing is when he calls up the talent and they sit for weeks, never play, then he sends them to us, disappointed and dejected. I have talked to so many of the Knights who feel so hopeless with this team. Several of them were called up just to sit and would probably not be called off the bench. Alot of this is business. It depends on their contracts as to how many times they get the call up. And most of, if not the majority of what you said is true. The minors are here to feed the majors and we are always excited when they get that call up. I just think that he should call it as it is and quit playing games with everyone. Like everything else, there are those who like Kenny and those who don't. And I'm one of the latter. But we'll see what goes on between the lines this year. Hopefully Guillen will settle things down.
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  #70  
Old 02-27-2005, 04:48 PM
SoxxoS SoxxoS is offline
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I don't understand how AA being the "tools" league where the top prospects traditionally go is KW's fault. If the said prospect tears up AA, then there is much hype about him and that puts the pressure of a callup to the Majors (especially with a mid market team with holes) that much more intense. See- Wells, Kip, Garland, Jon, Wright, Danny, Munoz, Arnie and Buerhle, Mark...etc.
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  #71  
Old 02-27-2005, 04:50 PM
California Sox California Sox is offline
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I understand your frustration. And this may not be a banner year for the Knights either. (If B-Mac and Anderson start at Birmingham, there may not be one decent prospect on the Knights.) But I do believe there is some good news on the horizon. Given the two-year contract for Dye, I think there is a chance that you'll see a full year of Brian Anderson at Charlotte in 2006. It's likely Sweeney will play at least one year in Charlotte if not two, given his age. A player like Casey Rogowski figures to spend quite a bit of time there if the Sox resign Konerko. Pedro Lopez, Robert Valido and Chris Young are all either very young or very raw. Those types of players often spend at least one year at Triple A. I agree B-Mac will blow through Charlotte. I believe he'll start the season in Birmingham, make a few starts in Charlotte and be in the major league rotation by 2006 at the latest. But by that time Tyler Lumsden, Ray Liotta, Wes Whisler, Gio Gonzalez, Daniel Haigwood, and Ryan Rodriguez figure to be knocking on the door of Triple A. KW can't trade all of them. Can he?
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  #72  
Old 02-27-2005, 06:22 PM
WoogSox WoogSox is offline
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Don know if this counts as a bust but More of a let down is Jason Bere. I used to love to watch him pitch, then the injuries and what not. Just disappointed with the way things turned out with him.
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  #73  
Old 02-28-2005, 12:36 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlotteknights
Maybe Bristol, Winston, and Birmingham don't have any complaints about williams; by the time the talent gets to Charlotte it's either been traded away or called up prematurely. Some, I do agree do make it to the bigs from there. However, that does not erase the fact that when Williams took over in Chicago they were Central Division Champions. I can't recall them winning since he's been there.
I really don't know how many times we have to rehash this., it's such a Red Herring, where do I begin... Williams took over a team without a starting rotation. Did it win the previous season? Yes. Did it have Charles Johnson (key down the stretch), Eldred, Sirotka, Baldwin (never healthy since), and Parque returning? Barcelo blew his arm up again and again, and Foulke/Howry/Buehrle was all he was left with after turning Sirotka into a failed year of David Wells. He inherited a team with one good starter (totally unproven at that time), and 2 young head-cases who have failed to develop into anything more than mediocre MLB starters (Kip Wells and Jon Garland). Several of those players had career years. Jose, Durham, and Frank all had their best year out of the last 5 or 6 in that one season and Singleton is out of baseball. WHAT IN THE HELL DID HE REALLY INHERIT?

Answer: Not much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by charlotteknights
Maybe I missed it. So if the talent is so good in Birmingham, why doesn't it translate to the majors? It sure isn't coming here. I understand completely the pecking order with the farm teams and agree that there is great talent in Birmingham. It just infuriates us Charlotteans when he brags about how deep his farm team is. Sure, it will be great if BMac comes here, but knowing Kenny, he'll go straight up to Chicago. And the most frustrating thing is when he calls up the talent and they sit for weeks, never play, then he sends them to us, disappointed and dejected. I have talked to so many of the Knights who feel so hopeless with this team. Several of them were called up just to sit and would probably not be called off the bench. Alot of this is business. It depends on their contracts as to how many times they get the call up. And most of, if not the majority of what you said is true. The minors are here to feed the majors and we are always excited when they get that call up. I just think that he should call it as it is and quit playing games with everyone. Like everything else, there are those who like Kenny and those who don't. And I'm one of the latter. But we'll see what goes on between the lines this year. Hopefully Guillen will settle things down.
Look, I understand why Charlotte is pissed. Ron Schueler drafted crappy players and lived off Larry Himes for years, while Ron's draftees were very often AAAA players who got to Charlotte and stalled, leaving veteran, experienced, winning teams in Charlotte. That is obviously not the way Ken Williams does things, and it's obvious to anyone that it pisses the Charlotte people off.

Meanwhile, Ken Williams will have 5 players in the Baseball America top 100 and has remade the ball club with 5 veteran startes now in place for the first time in his tenure.

The only thing that stops the cycle is having a veteran experienced team that stays healthy. Then there is no need to rush prospects. With a 70 million dollar payroll, that's almost impossible. I really don't know what you expect. You want to go back to Ron Schueler? I sure as hell don't.

Last edited by Randar68; 02-28-2005 at 12:43 PM.
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  #74  
Old 02-28-2005, 12:42 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Originally Posted by WoogSox
Don know if this counts as a bust but More of a let down is Jason Bere. I used to love to watch him pitch, then the injuries and what not. Just disappointed with the way things turned out with him.
That was just an injury. He was great in his short time prior to that... The next Rocket...
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  #75  
Old 02-28-2005, 05:27 PM
maurice maurice is offline
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It's true that Charlotte has seen few of the Sox recent quality prospects, but there's no need to overstate the case. It's not unusual for top prospects to skip AAA. (Lack of AAA ABs never seemed to bother Frank Thomas, et al.) Besides, it's not like Charlotte is completely bereft of any talented or productive players. (For example, Diaz kicked ass at AAA in 2004.) If you keep your fingers crossed, you'll get to see plenty of Anderson and McCarthy by the end of this year.
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