White Sox Interactive Forums
Minor Observations

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Minor Observations
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-31-2004, 08:08 PM
Viva Magglio Viva Magglio is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 5,568
Default How are we going to rebuild our farm system?

Having lost most of our minor league prospects to trades that, ultimately, will not bring us a World Series title this year or several thereafter, how are we going to rebuild our farm system?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-31-2004, 08:17 PM
Daver's Avatar
Daver Daver is offline
The Grand Wazoo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Suburbs
Posts: 26,641
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva Magglio
Having lost most of our minor league prospects to trades that, ultimately, will not bring us a World Series title this year or several thereafter, how are we going to rebuild our farm system?
Your kidding right?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-31-2004, 08:22 PM
PaleHoseGeorge's Avatar
PaleHoseGeorge PaleHoseGeorge is offline
Webmaster - French Fryer
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: W. Connecticut
Posts: 14,910
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver
Your kidding right?
Actually I think he is being serious, or at least trying to be. Our farm system has been good for hardly more than growing weeds for most of the 14 years since Ron Schueler inherited what Larry Himes gave him.

Who was our last homegrown talent to make a significant contribution? Sandwich pick Jim Parque?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-31-2004, 08:29 PM
Daver's Avatar
Daver Daver is offline
The Grand Wazoo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Suburbs
Posts: 26,641
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Actually I think he is being serious, or at least trying to be. Our farm system has been good for hardly more than growing weeds for most of the 14 years since Ron Schueler inherited what Larry Himes gave him.

Who was our last homegrown talent to make a significant contribution? Sandwich pick Jim Parque?
Mark Buerhle, a 56th round pick leaps to mind.

As does Carlos Lee.

And just for laughs, there is that little known guy by the name of Magglio Ordonez.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-31-2004, 08:34 PM
PaleHoseGeorge's Avatar
PaleHoseGeorge PaleHoseGeorge is offline
Webmaster - French Fryer
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: W. Connecticut
Posts: 14,910
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver
Mark Buerhle, a 56th round pick leaps to mind.

As does Carlos Lee.

And just for laughs, there is that little known guy by the name of Magglio Ordonez.
I thought Ordonez was a minor league pick up. My mistake. He was an undrafted prospect.

And *never* trade those 56th round picks. They are truly diamonds in the rough!

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-31-2004, 08:56 PM
Daver's Avatar
Daver Daver is offline
The Grand Wazoo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Suburbs
Posts: 26,641
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I thought Ordonez was a minor league pick up. My mistake. He was an undrafted prospect.

And *never* trade those 56th round picks. They are truly diamonds in the rough!

Magglio and Carlos were both signed as minor league FA's, the draft does not include South American players.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-31-2004, 11:23 PM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver
Mark Buerhle, a 56th round pick leaps to mind.

As does Carlos Lee.

And just for laughs, there is that little known guy by the name of Magglio Ordonez.
Maybe the question should be: Who is going to be the next homegrown talent to make a significant postive contriubtion to the White Sox. And after that is answered, I'll follow it with: When??

The fact that our farm system has run dry for 4 years is scary considering 4 years ago we had the #1 farm system in all of baseball. It wasn't until the last 2 years that we decided to move all this so called talent. Though I have noticed a trend where people who said last year we gave up low level prospects for ALomar or Everett are suddenly saying that if these guys weren't traded we'd have major league ready talent. Which is it??? Also, if we gave up such low level prospects last year, where are our upper level prospects?


Bob
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-31-2004, 11:31 PM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver
Magglio and Carlos were both signed as minor league FA's, the draft does not include South American players.
One other question I have. All those guys you mentioned were drafted/signed during the Schu. era. Yet everyone thinks Schue was awful as a GM when it came to running the minor leagues. Does that mean you think KW is worse?

I've stated all year that I look forward to the day a KW drafted and developed player makes a positive impact on this team. 4 years and 5 drafts later and I'm still waiting.

I hope help is around the corner real soon.



Bob
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-01-2004, 12:59 AM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I thought Ordonez was a minor league pick up. My mistake. He was an undrafted prospect.

And *never* trade those 56th round picks. They are truly diamonds in the rough!

Well, MB was a 38th round pick. Carlos and Maggs were signed by Sox Latin America scouts and have only ever played for the White Sox organization.

Next home-grown-player to contribute? Likely Brian Anderson or Munoz, but McCarthy and Sweeney and Fields really aren't all that far behind, IMO, all about 2 years away (regulars in 2006 or 2007), if they stay healthy.

In regards to Bob's comment: KW has traded many of these prospects for legit, every-day MLB players, therefore, whether they contribute or not to their future clubs, KW traded them when they had accumulated value and was able to turn them into sure-fire major leaguers. Bob, your entire system of evaluation is just off-base, and I'm not sure I can say anything to get you headed in the realistic direction after some of your previous comments on the issue.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-01-2004, 01:02 AM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gosox41
One other question I have. All those guys you mentioned were drafted/signed during the Schu. era. Yet everyone thinks Schue was awful as a GM when it came to running the minor leagues. Does that mean you think KW is worse?

I've stated all year that I look forward to the day a KW drafted and developed player makes a positive impact on this team. 4 years and 5 drafts later and I'm still waiting.

I hope help is around the corner real soon.



Bob
RS's biggest flaws were over-riding his scouts for his high-level picks, and failing to do anything good in terms of trades or FA pick-ups. Most of his drafts, outside of the first few rounds, were still under control by his scouting staffs...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:33 AM
Wealz Wealz is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar68
RS's biggest flaws were over-riding his scouts for his high-level picks, and failing to do anything good in terms of trades or FA pick-ups. Most of his drafts, outside of the first few rounds, were still under control by his scouting staffs...
Who would these scouts have taken if these decisions had been left to them?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:36 AM
Wealz Wealz is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gosox41
Maybe the question should be: Who is going to be the next homegrown talent to make a significant postive contriubtion to the White Sox. And after that is answered, I'll follow it with: When??

The fact that our farm system has run dry for 4 years is scary considering 4 years ago we had the #1 farm system in all of baseball. It wasn't until the last 2 years that we decided to move all this so called talent. Though I have noticed a trend where people who said last year we gave up low level prospects for ALomar or Everett are suddenly saying that if these guys weren't traded we'd have major league ready talent. Which is it??? Also, if we gave up such low level prospects last year, where are our upper level prospects?


Bob
Excellent post Bob. Williams' minor league operation is not getting the job done plain and simple.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-01-2004, 11:46 AM
California Sox California Sox is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,441
Post Am I the only one who thinks this?

The Sox minor league system lacks depth, but it is by no means barren. Brian Anderson is a quality prospect, if not a can't-miss impact player. Brandon McCarthy looks very very good. Sweeney has a high ceiling. Chris Young is very toolsy. I personally like Valido and Schnurstein. The draft this year holds some promise. I'll grant you most of the talent is either at Winston-Salem or Kannapolis and the top of the farm system has been traded away, but things are not that bad. The problem with the system a few years ago (and I think the Cubs have had a bit of this too) was that it was loaded with marginal major league talent excelling in the minors. The Sox currently have quite a few hitters (particularly outfielders) who profile as major league regulars. A couple of very promising pitchers and very very little depth. So, obviously, what the Sox have to do is acquire extra draft picks (by letting Maggs go and getting picks for Loiaza -- oops) and intesify their presence in Latin America. Oh, and one more thing: KW has to stop giving up two and three players for every one he acquires. The Sox can't afford to do that at this juncture. But I wouldn't panic. I've seen the Sox system a lot worse than this.
__________________
Witness to the agony ('76 Sox season tix) and the ecstasy (2005 World Champions!)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-01-2004, 12:09 PM
SoxxoS SoxxoS is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe AZ during school, lombard IL in the summer
Posts: 6,669
Default

This is how I look at it:

We had a top 3 minor league system 4 years ago. We aren't reaping the benefits of hardly any of those hyped prospects (Rauch, Borchard).

So now, we sit in the bottom third of minor league rankings, we can pretty much only do the same or better. Maybe our luck will change.
__________________
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/profile.php?do=editsignature

Freddie, how are you getting guys out?

"throwing a bunch of bull****."
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-01-2004, 01:23 PM
Joel Perez Joel Perez is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Luling, TX
Posts: 439
Default How's this for an answer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva Magglio
Having lost most of our minor league prospects to trades that, ultimately, will not bring us a World Series title this year or several thereafter, how are we going to rebuild our farm system?
1) You rebuild your front office with top front office talent, that actually have a clue about drafting talent at every position.

2) You rebuild your scouting department with scouts who actually have a clue about assessing talent, and how to rank them.

3) You have a support system for these kids in place--great managers, hitting and pitching instructors, etc. Role models, if you will, for these players.

4) Then you draft, having your priorities - pitching, infield, etc.
You pray that some of your picks actually make it. Josh Hamilton is a great example of one who has god-given talent, but in his earlier days went with the wrong crowd, and now is trying to get back.

I have my doubts about our current front office's ability to draft, then mentor, the kids. That's the reason why the Sox have been trading for proven talent, because the kids aren't ready to step in and make an impact.

The last one, maybe two drafts, are a step in the right direction, but a ton more is needed every year.
__________________
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/s...sigs/hawks.jpg
¡Lección española una... que golpea su parte posterior con el pie!

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:03 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.