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  #16  
Old 07-16-2004, 10:34 PM
OEO Magglio OEO Magglio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealz
So being rated 29th out of 30 isn't a concern?
No because these rankings are awful. They had the a's as the number one farm system in baseball and that's completely off. These rankings are dumb and far from the truth.
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  #17  
Old 07-16-2004, 10:42 PM
Wealz Wealz is offline
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Originally Posted by OEO Magglio
No because these rankings are awful. They had the a's as the number one farm system in baseball and that's completely off. These rankings are dumb and far from the truth.
Where should the A's sytem be ranked? Where should the Sox be?
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  #18  
Old 07-16-2004, 10:45 PM
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Daver Daver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealz
Where should the A's sytem be ranked? Where should the Sox be?
You started this stupid argument, you should know.

Do your own homework.
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  #19  
Old 07-16-2004, 11:01 PM
Wealz Wealz is offline
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Originally Posted by Daver
You started this stupid argument, you should know.

Do your own homework.
I wasn't the one who disagreed with the rankings in principle, so it isn't my "homework" to do. And how is this a stupid argument? Are the White Sox player development people beyond reproach in your opinion?
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  #20  
Old 07-16-2004, 11:16 PM
OEO Magglio OEO Magglio is offline
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Originally Posted by Wealz
I wasn't the one who disagreed with the rankings in principle, so it isn't my "homework" to do. And how is this a stupid argument? Are the White Sox player development people beyond reproach in your opinion?
It's a stupid argument for one because your obviously arguing something you don't understand much of if you believe these rankings. Second it's a stupid argument because your blaming kenny and shaffer for depleting a farm system that isn't depleted. If your asking me where I think the sox and the a's should be my answer would be both close to the middle of the pact. Believe what you want but the a's and sox farm systems aren't that far off in terms of talent.

Last edited by OEO Magglio; 07-16-2004 at 11:22 PM.
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  #21  
Old 07-17-2004, 12:08 AM
Wealz Wealz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OEO Magglio
It's a stupid argument for one because your obviously arguing something you don't understand much of if you believe these rankings. Second it's a stupid argument because your blaming kenny and shaffer for depleting a farm system that isn't depleted. If your asking me where I think the sox and the a's should be my answer would be both close to the middle of the pact. Believe what you want but the a's and sox farm systems aren't that far off in terms of talent.
I'm blaming Williams and mostly Shaffer for bad drafts. Shaffer has been around a long time and his track record at the draft table has been less than stellar to say the least and downright abysmal when you look at the pitchers he's had a part in taking.

Take a look at this taken from his bio:

Quote:
Shaffer was honored with the Scout of the Year award in 1987, when the Sox selected pitcher Jack McDowell in the first round. During his tenure, the White Sox have selected Mark Buehrle as a draft and follow in the 38th round of 1998 and took Stanford standout Joe Borchard with the 12th pick of the first round in 2000.
McDowell, Buehrle, and the great Joe Borchard are the highlights? That's sad.
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  #22  
Old 07-17-2004, 11:42 PM
jeremyb1 jeremyb1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealz
Anderson, Sweeney, McCarthy. Terrific. Compare that to other systems around baseball and you'll find it to be severely lacking. It was below medocre before the trades of Reed, Francisco, Webster, Ring, etc. too. Top end prospects has been virtually non-existent the last 4 years.

Middle-of-the-pack revenues coupled with one of the 3 or 4 worst systems in baseball is a recipe for disaster.
I think 29 out of 30 is a bit of an exageration since there are a lot of horrible systems out there. We've got Rauch and Munoz at AAA and very recently Diaz and Borchard. A lot of teams can't boast that type of major league ready talent. Anderson at AA and Sweeney, Fields, and Rogowski (a huge sleeper when going with a tools based perspective as BA or Sports Weekly use since he's not flashy and they will underrate his outstanding plate discipline) at WS. I think we're definitely in the lower third just not second to last.

There are definitely some players KW has traded (obviously Reed in particular) that I think we sorely miss.
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  #23  
Old 07-17-2004, 11:54 PM
jeremyb1 jeremyb1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealz
I'm blaming Williams and mostly Shaffer for bad drafts.
I think we miss Doug Lauman. He was scouting director when we took Reed, Anderson, and Sweeney the last couple years.
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  #24  
Old 07-18-2004, 12:05 AM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyb1
I think we miss Doug Lauman. He was scouting director when we took Reed, Anderson, and Sweeney the last couple years.
Laumann was terrific in his position.

Wealz won't answer what he wants, a strong MLB team willing to trade its prospects to win now, or a team that drafts, waits, and tries to develop players. You can't have it both ways. KW is clearly running things in the latter method, so bitching about the farm system clearly becomes the simplest reason to bitch and moan about things.

like I said:
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  #25  
Old 07-18-2004, 04:37 AM
Chisoxfn Chisoxfn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar68
Laumann was terrific in his position.

Wealz won't answer what he wants, a strong MLB team willing to trade its prospects to win now, or a team that drafts, waits, and tries to develop players. You can't have it both ways. KW is clearly running things in the latter method, so bitching about the farm system clearly becomes the simplest reason to bitch and moan about things.

like I said:
The farm system has landed the Sox a decent amount of quality players. It got the Sox Marte, Gload (For Wade Parrish...I know, probably a bad example), Garcia, Everett, Alomar Jr., Schoenweis, and I guess you could say Konerko (since Cameron was home grown). Thats just off the top of my head.
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  #26  
Old 07-18-2004, 09:52 AM
Wealz Wealz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar68
Laumann was terrific in his position.

Wealz won't answer what he wants, a strong MLB team willing to trade its prospects to win now, or a team that drafts, waits, and tries to develop players. You can't have it both ways. KW is clearly running things in the latter method, so bitching about the farm system clearly becomes the simplest reason to bitch and moan about things.

like I said:
Aside from Reed, what Kenny Williams era *draft choices* have they traded that are any good?
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  #27  
Old 07-18-2004, 09:58 AM
Wealz Wealz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyb1
I think we miss Doug Lauman. He was scouting director when we took Reed, Anderson, and Sweeney the last couple years.
Absolutely. Shaffer has a penchant for taking "projectable arms" with premium picks. I guess he's trying to find the next Danny Wright.
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  #28  
Old 07-18-2004, 11:12 AM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealz
Aside from Reed, what Kenny Williams era *draft choices* have they traded that are any good?


you don't understand this business one iota. KW's only had what, now 4 draft classes? How many of those would one reasonably expect to have mLB-ready talent?

You still haven't answered, what's your pick:

Quote:
So, you can take your pick. Sit around for the next 10 years and wait for the prospects to make MLB impacts, or trade them while they're unknown commodities for proven MLB talent.
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  #29  
Old 07-18-2004, 11:55 AM
Wealz Wealz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randar68


you don't understand this business one iota. KW's only had what, now 4 draft classes? How many of those would one reasonably expect to have mLB-ready talent?

You still haven't answered, what's your pick:
It's not about being major league ready. Williams era draft picks struggle in the minors.

You're saying that the draft choices that Williams traded away is what is holding the system back? That's moronic. Reed, Ring, Hummell, Webster and Rupe? Ring, Hummell and Webster are much closer to fringe prospects than they are to impact prospects and Rupe is a project.

Shaffer needs to go.
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  #30  
Old 07-18-2004, 04:55 PM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealz
It's not about being major league ready. Williams era draft picks struggle in the minors.

You're saying that the draft choices that Williams traded away is what is holding the system back? That's moronic. Reed, Ring, Hummell, Webster and Rupe? Ring, Hummell and Webster are much closer to fringe prospects than they are to impact prospects and Rupe is a project.

Shaffer needs to go.
Shaffer needs to go? Those were Laumann draft picks, no? Get your story straight.
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