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Old 07-24-2001, 08:01 AM
delben91 delben91 is offline
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Default where we are (really long)

Ok, I'd like to start this post off by saying, it was great to see Mark rebound last night. He seemed to pitch an outstanding game and got bit by our lack of offense. Anyway, now I'm at work, with nothing to do for a little bit and thought I'd run down the sox roster with my thoughts on each player and where they fit. Any responses will be appreciated.

Tradability rating 1 = crucial to the team, 5 = very expendable

Baldwin: Seems to be slowly working his way back from shoulder surgery. A great influence in the clubhouse, but maybe too expensive and might not be young enough for where the sox are going pitching wise. Tradability: 4

Biddle: A young guy who seems to be a tough luck loser for the sox. Pitches well most of the time, but is probably the shakiest of the youngsters on the staff. Seems to have a decent future as an end of the rotation guy, someone we should keep around at least until we see how Rauch and Wright amongst others pan out. Tradability: 3

Buehrle: This guy and kip are the rocks of the rotation. He showed against baltimore that he can battle even when he doesn't have his best stuff and can be dominant when he does. Unfortunately, he proved last night that he can't score runs for himself against american league teams :p Tradability: 1

Embree: Hasn't been around long enough to get a fair rating, but from what I've seen, he's nothing special. Tradability: 5

Foulke: As close to automatic as you get in baseball when it comes to closers. And until someone else steps up and shows they can handle the job as well as Keith, we need him. Tradability: 1

Garland: Seems to finally be getting used to the big leagues in a bullpen role. Definately has the potential to be great in the rotation. Is so young, we need to hold on to this guy and give him another shot at starting. Tradability: 1

Ginter: Is doing better, relatively speaking this time around in the bigs. But with so many starter prospects, Matt could be on the outside looking in. Tradability: 3

Glover: Is starting to come around as a reliable bridge guy but is inexperienced and I wouldn't be surprised to see him have another bad streak before the year ends. Tradability: 3

Howry: Has been up and down this year and his velocity has been spotty. With Glover showing signs of being a quality reliever and simas, osuna, et al coming back next year, howry's spot is anything but safe. Tradability: 3.5

Lowe: A solid guy who does whatever he's asked to do and usually does it well. Only thing working against him is that he's 30 on a young team. Tradability: 2

Kipper: See Buehrle. Tradability: 1

Alomar: He's a veteran presence, but he has bad knees and might bring something in a trade. Tradability: 4

Johnson: Has a good eye, decent bat, and the pitchers seem to love him. Definately has the defense thing down, a rarity on this team. May never be more than a platoon player, but who else do we have that's screaming to be the full time catcher? Tradability: 2

Clayton: Coming around of late, but if we find a taker, ditch him. Tradability: 5

Durham: Always a steaky player, and is in a bad streak this year. Has been solid defensively. If we get a good enough offer, I could see Ray going. Tradability: 3.5

Graffy: The Sean Lowe of position players. Does whatever you ask and usually does it well. A quality utility guy. Tradability: 3

Konerko: Is hitting better this past week. A great guy who likes to be here. May be expendable with Liefer coming around, but I'd like to see him stay unless we get an irresistable deal. Tradability: 2.5

Perry: Mr. Clutch, but with Liefer and soon Crede, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go. Tradability: 4

Valentin: Manos is the heart and soul of this team, we can't let him get away. Tradability: 1

Liefer: Swings a powerful stick and hasn't overly embarassed himself in the field. A good utility guy if nothing else. Tradability: 2.5


Ordonez: Maggs is a great player and will continue to be great. Pay the man his money already!! Tradability: 1

Singleton: Good glove, decent stick, decent speed. But with out logjam in the OF, he can be dealt for the right people. Tradability: 3.5

Lee: El Caballo walks rarely but carries a big stick. I say keep him. Tradability: 1

Rowand: The new guy on the block but has shown some good potential. Let's play him a lot and see what happens. Tradability: 2

Canseco: The enforcer of sorts in this lineup. He still seems to have something left, but when Frank returns, he'll have no position. If the sox finally do drop out of the playoff chase, we should float his name around and see what offers we get. Tradability: 4

Jerry Manuel: I personally think the guy is a good manager. Not great, but good. With a team as young as this one, we need an even keeled guy running things. He got the team to come back and reach .500 and doesn't let them quit. Here's one vote of confidence for our manager. I say keep him.

And this doesn't count our injured players. I expect Thomas to come back strong, the same with Parque and Simas. Wunsch and Osuna, I don't know what to expect from them having not seen much of Osuna and not enough of Wunsch this year to know if he was a one year wonder. Add in the likes of a returning Rauch, Wright, Crede, Borchard in the minors and we seem pretty solid in the rotation and outfield. I evaluate our needs as follows: Leadoff man (centerfielder, ss, anything), ss unless you want to stick Manos there, which I wouldn't argue with, CF and C. Like I said before, your thoughts are welcome. Personally, I'm proud of our guys. They started flat, fought back to .500 and seem to not have given up yet. I'm wearing my 2000 Central Division Champs hat with pride. And as always

I've been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding.
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Old 07-24-2001, 09:24 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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What it boils down to is that our good players aren't tradable and our crappy ones are.

It's hard to improve the team trading only crappy players (unless we get lucky with someone desparate for say JB before the deadline).
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Old 07-24-2001, 10:57 AM
fado fado is offline
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Default This might be longer

delben, I have to say that your assessment of our players is pretty much right on. There are a couple of things that I would have to say about our core of players.

Paulie, along with Mags, Lee, Valentin, and Ray, have to stay. These guys are our youth and they play well together (Ifeel like I'm talking about a day-care, which it almost is).

Our starters minus JB also have to stay. JB needs to leave Chicago. I'm saying that more because I think he might do better outside of here. I think he's been going through a rough time with contract talks, trade talks, and he is not responding well to it. Give him a chance somewhere else.

I think Foulke, Ginter, and Howry have to stay here. Give Embree his walking papers, and Wunsch for that matter. I think he might have been a flluke last year, with the side arm delivery, and this year it wasn't surprising anyone, but let's see how is arm holds up in spring training next year.

I think our weakest leak may be third, unless Crede is ready. Let Perry, Singleton, and Canseco go.

Liefer can play, I think Rowand is ready, and Thomas will be pack next year. But, I wouldn't count our boys out just yet. Last night blew, and that ump knew what he was doing at the end of the game. He was staring at Manuel after he called each strike. At the same time, the strike zone was a little wide all night, and these guys should have been swinging. Let's beat the hell out of Burba tonight and see where we go from there.
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Old 07-24-2001, 11:04 AM
Fisk Fan Fisk Fan is offline
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The only problem is that the trading deadline is quickly approaching. We need to determine right now who needs to be dealt and who sticks. Otherwise, like David Wells, we will be stuck with players we could have dealt for prospects.
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Old 07-24-2001, 02:14 PM
Clarkdog Clarkdog is offline
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I agree. The core of this team is Walnuts, Maggs, Lee, Valentin and Durham. Thomas is a big hitter in the lineup, but is not a factor to team chemistry. Those five are. The only issue I have with Durham is that he is not a good leadoff hitter.

JB is big for chemistry but this pitching staff is leaving him behind. In 2002, I don't see holding a spot in the rotation for him if I had to choose between him, Garland, or maybe Rauch.

Agree on Embree. How come no one can teach him how to get a little movement on that fastball, or to throw a decent slider? Wunsch was throwing the low 90s last year, this year he was topping out at 85. Wait on the surgery. It's good to have lefty in the bullpen and given his success he had last year with the large number of appearances, I don't think he is a fluke.

Agree on Foulke and Howry. Keep Glover. Ginter cannot throw strikes when he absolutly needs to. He gets behind too many hitters. Not to say he couldn't be good, but he is taking space from Barcelo, Simas, and Osuna who, when healthy in 2002 are better.

Deal Singleton. We are stacked in the outfield with prospects and talent (Lee, Rowand, Borchard, Ordonez, Liefer). He is the odd man out.

Deal Perry. If Crede is ready then play him, if he is not then trade him. The Sox have been talking about this guy for two years now. He can certainly give us what Perry has. .271 4 HR 23RBI?

Canseco. Sox can't afford and don't need him in 2002, but he is ours until the end of the season.

What I don't want to see is the Sox sacrificing thier future to chase a playoff spot that has been karmatically avoiding them with injuries, missed opportunities, and just bad breaks.

That Ordonez smash off Sabathia's ankle in the 1st that turned into a double play is the universe telling you that things aren't going to go your way.
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Old 07-24-2001, 02:58 PM
Soxheads Soxheads is offline
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Why do you have Singletons tradeability so low for a guy that will have a 90% chance of leaving?
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Old 07-24-2001, 03:20 PM
fado fado is offline
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You are right about saying that there is some bad karma floating around here. But I really hope that JR doesn't decide to dust off the flag and raise it. There have ben so many rumors floating around about a owners lockout, that maybe he knows something that no one else does. And since he was the intregal part of the last lockout (Thanks, I didn't want the Sox to win that year anyway! Dick) Sorry, I get pissed when I think about that.

This guy, JR, has the balls to say that he loves baseball more than he loves basketball, and that he would go into debt if it meant that he would win a world series. Bull! He had the team to win the series and he was the leader of the owners to lockout the players, what a crock.

Anyway, if he knows that they are locking out the players again next year, why should he resign all the $ players? This way he won't have to pay them! STROKE!!!
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Old 07-24-2001, 03:59 PM
delben91 delben91 is offline
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Why do you have Singletons tradeability so low for a guy that will have a 90% chance of leaving?
I would have had him with a higher tradeability rating except he may be the only "true" centerfielder we have in the system
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