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  #1  
Old 10-08-2003, 06:10 PM
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RedPinStripes RedPinStripes is offline
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Why dont the Sox take advantage of the DH position?

Ever since i've been a Sox fan , Uncle Jerry has owned the team. And there has always been 2 guys they switched at dh/1b. First it was luzinski squires walker, Kittle in teh early - mid 80's. And then Frank has been strictly a dh since Konerko is here. I think this idea is rediculous after seeing the weak spots on the Sox for the last 20 years. This team NEVER played small ball except for 1990 with torborg.

After seeing how Oakland used Ray Durham in the 2002 playoffs , i cant see why this team would want Konerko or anyone who is completly slow beside Frank.

Who said a DH has to be big and slow? Remember how we all used to get so pissed at JM for "resting players" ? I saw the twins moving the DH around more then anything. What's wrong with Tony G. playing 3rd or SS for a night or 2 and have Valentin / Crede DH? Or whenever they give Harris PT , DH Lee or Maggs. I dont see a point in a guy like Konerko who can hit for a half season and kills you on bases in key situations.

In a nut shell, I would like to see Frank play 1b on a regular baisis and use the DH to rest people instead of putting a hole in your lineup 3 times a week.

Any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2003, 06:43 PM
poorme poorme is offline
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while i can't figure out exactly what you're trying to say, i wish the sox didn't have about 3-4 dh's on thier roster every year.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2003, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by poorme
while i can't figure out exactly what you're trying to say, i wish the sox didn't have about 3-4 dh's on thier roster every year.
Exactly. replace those dh type players with small ball players.Home runs will come. Stranding runners is too frustrating to watch.

USe the dh to rest players, not as a set position for 2 guys
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Old 10-08-2003, 07:16 PM
poorme poorme is offline
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i guess you haven't been brainwa...err exposed to Moneyball yet.
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2003, 07:19 PM
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I dont build my fantasy teams around small ball.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2003, 10:31 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by poorme
i guess you haven't been brainwa...err exposed to Moneyball yet.

Quote:
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
I dont build my fantasy teams around small ball.

How many of the runs scored so far in the two championship series have come via the long ball?

Keep dreaming about those small ball teams guys. It isn't 1950 anymore...
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2003, 10:36 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by voodoochile
How many of the runs scored so far in the two championship series have come via the long ball?

Keep dreaming about those small ball teams guys. It isn't 1950 anymore...
Never mind, answered my own question...

23 or the 39 runs score have come because of a homerun - either the guy who hit it or the people who were on base when it happened.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2003, 10:36 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by voodoochile
How many of the runs scored so far in the two championship series have come via the long ball?

Keep dreaming about those small ball teams guys. It isn't 1950 anymore...
As I alluded to in another post, this business with the DH position has been discussed on more than one occasion. Whoever the new manager happens to be, I hope that he is able to find a way to resolve this situation. Obviously, something needs to be done about the Thomas-Konerko mess at first base. Frank needs to be at first more often than he was, so that he will be able to avoid pro-longed slumps.

If the Sox can find a way to move Konerko, this point will become moot. The same is true if Frank leaves. If both are still around when Spring Traning starts, then the new manager will have somet thinking to do.

Notice that I said he will have some thinking to do. I didn't say the "other" word.



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Old 10-08-2003, 10:47 PM
soxtalker soxtalker is offline
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The Sox have struggled for most of the Thomas years with the DH issue. As has been discussed many times this year, it would help Thomas' batting average to have him play first. But several managers have had a problem with this, as Frank is not the best-fielding first baseman. The problem has been exascerbated during the past couple of years due to (a) Frank's struggles at the plate particularly during his injury and divorce seasons (and hence a desire to do anything to increase his average) and (b) Konerko's half-season struggles at the plate (and hence a frustration that he was playing at all).

I suspect that the solution depends a lot on how the Sox resolve the Thomas and Konerko contract issues. If they both remain on the team, we'll have the same problem.
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Old 10-08-2003, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by soxtalker
The Sox have struggled for most of the Thomas years with the DH issue. As has been discussed many times this year, it would help Thomas' batting average to have him play first. But several managers have had a problem with this, as Frank is not the best-fielding first baseman. The problem has been exascerbated during the past couple of years due to (a) Frank's struggles at the plate particularly during his injury and divorce seasons (and hence a desire to do anything to increase his average) and (b) Konerko's half-season struggles at the plate (and hence a frustration that he was playing at all).

I suspect that the solution depends a lot on how the Sox resolve the Thomas and Konerko contract issues. If they both remain on the team, we'll have the same problem.
Could you list the several other managers besides Manuel who had a problem with Frank at 1B?

Are you defending Manuel? Just curious...
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  #11  
Old 10-09-2003, 01:57 AM
kermittheefrog kermittheefrog is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
I dont build my fantasy teams around small ball.
Ironically you'd probably do well that way. Stolen bases are a much bigger factor in fantasy than on the diamond.
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2003, 07:35 AM
fquaye149 fquaye149 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by voodoochile
Could you list the several other managers besides Manuel who had a problem with Frank at 1B?

Are you defending Manuel? Just curious...
i think everyone in the world should have a problem with frank at first.

doesn't anyone remember the 2002 cubs sox series?

frank can't do jack crap out there in the field.

now i know 1b is not a huge skill position, and i know paul konerko is not much better than avg, if not worse. but first base is still an important position to be able to field, especially with a hard throwing but not always accurate ss like valentin.

paul is still heads and shoulders above frank defensively
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2003, 08:10 AM
poorme poorme is offline
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frank thomas is a butcher at 1B. but since we're in no position to compete for a championship anyway, you might as well put him at first to solidify his hall of fame credentials. that's the most exciting thing we have to look forward to. unless of course he leaves the team and goes to cooperstown with a devil rays hat.

Last edited by poorme; 10-09-2003 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 10-09-2003, 08:15 AM
soxtalker soxtalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by voodoochile
Could you list the several other managers besides Manuel who had a problem with Frank at 1B?

Are you defending Manuel? Just curious...
I am by no means defending Manuel. In fact, during the latter third of the past season, I really couldn't understand his rigid insistence at keeping Konerko at first base, particularly as Frank's hitting seemed to be slipping back.

My comments weren't intended to focus on the managers. As I recall, there has been a continual debate during the 90's as to whether Frank should play first base or DH. For much of that time he has indicated that he'd prefer to play the field. It may have only been recently -- I just don't remember -- where the statistical difference between his DH and 1B hitting has been so clear.

I'm not trying to attack Frank on this. Except for the couple of years that he struggled, his OBP and influence on batters that precede and follow him in the line-up have been incredibly valuable. However, he isn't a great fielder. I vaguely remember attempts to teach him how to better field the position during the 90's. The debate -- whether here, in the media, or, more important, in the manager's mind when he makes up the line-up -- has always been whether the Sox should live with the less-than-average fielding or put him at DH. Often that decision has been to put him at DH -- particularly as he moved on in his career.

If the question (of this thread) is why we have had inflexibility at the DH, much of the reason is that we have had this incredibly valuable hitter penciled in at that position. Now, if he stays with the team next year, should he DH or play 1B? I don't know right now. However, the difference in his batting average at 1B vs. DH is certainly pushing the argument for 1B. That would also give us more flexibility at DH.
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2003, 11:33 AM
RichH55 RichH55 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by soxtalker
I am by no means defending Manuel. In fact, during the latter third of the past season, I really couldn't understand his rigid insistence at keeping Konerko at first base, particularly as Frank's hitting seemed to be slipping back.

My comments weren't intended to focus on the managers. As I recall, there has been a continual debate during the 90's as to whether Frank should play first base or DH. For much of that time he has indicated that he'd prefer to play the field. It may have only been recently -- I just don't remember -- where the statistical difference between his DH and 1B hitting has been so clear.

I'm not trying to attack Frank on this. Except for the couple of years that he struggled, his OBP and influence on batters that precede and follow him in the line-up have been incredibly valuable. However, he isn't a great fielder. I vaguely remember attempts to teach him how to better field the position during the 90's. The debate -- whether here, in the media, or, more important, in the manager's mind when he makes up the line-up -- has always been whether the Sox should live with the less-than-average fielding or put him at DH. Often that decision has been to put him at DH -- particularly as he moved on in his career.

If the question (of this thread) is why we have had inflexibility at the DH, much of the reason is that we have had this incredibly valuable hitter penciled in at that position. Now, if he stays with the team next year, should he DH or play 1B? I don't know right now. However, the difference in his batting average at 1B vs. DH is certainly pushing the argument for 1B. That would also give us more flexibility at DH.

I agree he is less than average there....but are Konerko or Daubach the second coming of Keith Hernandez? And if Playing 1B helps Frank's average at all...doesnt that offset any loss from defense?
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