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  #1  
Old 08-05-2003, 12:35 AM
Viva Magglio Viva Magglio is offline
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Default My Own Sox Rant

Almost 44,000 of us show up tonight, and this is how our beloved ballclub pays us back??? I am so disgusted with this game tonight. If I were the management of this organization, everyone who bought a ticket for tonight's debacle would be entitled to a free ticket for a future White Sox game based upon availability.

Jerry Manuel put himself right back under the blade of my guillotine with his pitching moves tonight. My mistake was taking him off the chopping block during the winning streak. Why the hell did he yank Jon Garland after 79 pitches??? I know Garland had that one bad inning and that he gave up a leadoff single in this particular inning. However, I think Manuel blew the game 1) taking Garland out too soon, and 2) leaving Scott Schoeneweis in too long.

That is not to say there were no other problems tonight. Our pitching, for instance, has given up 31 runs over the past three losses. And we made several mental mistakes in the field that played a collective role in the loss tonight. Frank and Mágglio each got a hit tonight, and we did swing the bat quite well tonight. However, we left too many on base early in the game.

Setbacks like this almost make me wish that we never went on that run in the first place. It's as if they tease us into thinking that we're for real. Then, they pull a bait and switch by playing like they did tonight. I am not going to say "season over" tonight. The reason for that is because they will probably tease us one or two more times and dupe us again.

I am just so disgusted with this team. I feel like they are a fraud and we fell for them hook, line, and sinker.
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2003, 12:40 AM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Default Re: My Own Sox Rant

Quote:
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Almost 44,000 of us show up tonight, and this is how our beloved ballclub pays us back??? I am so disgusted with this game tonight. If I were the management of this organization, everyone who bought a ticket for tonight's debacle would be entitled to a free ticket for a future White Sox game based upon availability.

Jerry Manuel put himself right back under the blade of my guillotine with his pitching moves tonight. My mistake was taking him off the chopping block during the winning streak. Why the hell did he yank Jon Garland after 79 pitches??? I know Garland had that one bad inning and that he gave up a leadoff single in this particular inning. However, I think Manuel blew the game 1) taking Garland out too soon, and 2) leaving Scott Schoeneweis in too long.

That is not to say there were no other problems tonight. Our pitching, for instance, has given up 31 runs over the past three losses. And we made several mental mistakes in the field that played a collective role in the loss tonight. Frank and Mágglio each got a hit tonight, and we did swing the bat quite well tonight. However, we left too many on base early in the game.

Setbacks like this almost make me wish that we never went on that run in the first place. It's as if they tease us into thinking that we're for real. Then, they pull a bait and switch by playing like they did tonight. I am not going to say "season over" tonight. The reason for that is because they will probably tease us one or two more times and dupe us again.

I am just so disgusted with this team. I feel like they are a fraud and we fell for them hook, line, and sinker.

So did a lot of others, including me. I've just learned not to get my hopes up. Most of the problems you listed (other then the starting pitching) have been problems most of the year. 2 weeks of home runs blinded us from the faults, but they were still there.

For those who think this is a different Sox team, I disagree. Some of the players may have changed, but the crappy ball playing still lingers on...
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  #3  
Old 08-05-2003, 12:40 AM
Blueprint1 Blueprint1 is offline
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Yep took the words right out of my mouth
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2003, 01:28 AM
chisox06 chisox06 is offline
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Agreed 100%. JM singlehanded outmanaged himself a game. I get so frustrated at this guy. Garland's D let him down for the first 3, and that single in the 6th was off a damn good pitch. And then he burns up Gordon so he will be unavailable for the next 2 most important games of the series. I think Garland had some of the best stuff hes had all year, it almost seems that JM is addicted to Tinkering. He's a timebomb over there he just has to do something to screw up whatever is goin on.
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2003, 01:35 AM
Kilroy Kilroy is offline
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As much as I wanted to blame JM for yanking Garland after 79 pitches, I can't really.

Schoenweis got no one out. Whether or not Garland could have continued or not is not the issue. The relivers delivered some pretty piss-poor performances, end of story.

Just because the starter could have gone longer, doesn't change the fact that they didn't come thru and do their jobs. When he finally pulled him and got Ginter in, he was ejected along with him when Ginter intentionally plunked a Royal. So all that happened after that was pretty much on Nossek, w/out any evidence to the contrary.
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  #6  
Old 08-05-2003, 01:52 AM
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TornLabrum TornLabrum is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kilroy
As much as I wanted to blame JM for yanking Garland after 79 pitches, I can't really.

Schoenweis got no one out. Whether or not Garland could have continued or not is not the issue. The relivers delivered some pretty piss-poor performances, end of story.

Just because the starter could have gone longer, doesn't change the fact that they didn't come thru and do their jobs. When he finally pulled him and got Ginter in, he was ejected along with him when Ginter intentionally plunked a Royal. So all that happened after that was pretty much on Nossek, w/out any evidence to the contrary.
A couple of points. First I have no idea what you are talking about when you say, "Just because the starter could have gone longer doesn't change the fact that they didn't come thru and do their jobs." They wouldn't have had to come through if he had left Garland in.

According to the report I heard on the Score (I missed Bruce Levine's report because I was in the john), Manuel said he lifted him because he didn't like the way Garland looked on the mound tonight. Translation: "I removed him on a whim."

Manuel is an idiot (and we really do need an icon for that statement).
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  #7  
Old 08-05-2003, 01:56 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TornLabrum
A couple of points. First I have no idea what you are talking about when you say, "Just because the starter could have gone longer doesn't change the fact that they didn't come thru and do their jobs." They wouldn't have had to come through if he had left Garland in.

According to the report I heard on the Score (I missed Bruce Levin's report because I was in the john), Manuel said he lifted him because he didn't like the way Garland looked on the mound tonight. Translation: "I removed him on a whim."

Manuel is an idiot (and we really do need an icon for that statement).

"whoops... turns out it was a spot on my glasses, John was fine... Oh well.. we'll get them tomorrow. Now since we lost, I am going to have to change things up just a little bit...

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  #8  
Old 08-05-2003, 02:01 AM
fuzzy_patters fuzzy_patters is offline
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In JM's press conference, he listed two reasons for yanking Garland:

1) He has a history of giving up hits with two strikes, and he had just given one up.

2) Garland has a history of letting teams back into games.

I find it hard to disagree with either one of these, and, in fact, if Garland had let the Royals back in the game, I'm sure many of you would have bashed JM for that, too. I can hear it now, "There goes Tinkerer leaving Garland in to blow a lead again, and he was giving up those two strike hits to boot." It's not JM's fault that Schoenweiss did not get anybody out. He did the move that made the most since when you consider the history of his pitcher.

Anyway, I think the hitters are as much responsible for this game as anybody. The home plate umpire took the inside corner away from the pitchers, and the Royals were smart enough to take advantage of it. They tried to go the other way with the outside pitches and were able to extend rallies doing so. Meanwhile, our hitters were up there looking to hit bombs, but it was harder to hit them late in the game when the pitchers were no longer allowed to pitch inside. That seemed like a really dumb approach on their part.
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2003, 02:05 AM
Kilroy Kilroy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TornLabrum
A couple of points. First I have no idea what you are talking about when you say, "Just because the starter could have gone longer doesn't change the fact that they didn't come thru and do their jobs." They wouldn't have had to come through if he had left Garland in.
Yeah, but you can only make that statement after the fact. Hindsight being 20/20 and all. And if he leaves Garland in and the same thing happens, he's a moron for not getting him out.

Plain and simple, I expected Garland to get the next three guys out, but he wasn't in the game any more. My expectation didn't change when Schoenweis came in, but apparently yours did. You say that Garland shouldn't have been yanked, so you must have known that Schoenweis wouldn't get anyone out, right?

Whether or not Garland should have been pulled, you can't blame Manuel for the next pitcher not being able to get anyone out. Especially a guy who's been damn tough on leftys since he got here. He faced at least 4 in a row, and had no luck at all...
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Old 08-05-2003, 02:10 AM
fuzzy_patters fuzzy_patters is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kilroy
Yeah, but you can only make that statement after the fact. Hindsight being 20/20 and all. And if he leaves Garland in and the same thing happens, he's a moron for not getting him out.

Plain and simple, I expected Garland to get the next three guys out, but he wasn't in the game any more. My expectation didn't change when Schoenweis came in, but apparently yours did. You say that Garland shouldn't have been yanked, so you must have known that Schoenweis wouldn't get anyone out, right?

Whether or not Garland should have been pulled, you can't blame Manuel for the next pitcher not being able to get anyone out. Especially a guy who's been damn tough on leftys since he got here. He faced at least 4 in a row, and had no luck at all...
I wonder how much Schoenweis's poor performance had to do with A) the home plate umpire not allowing him warm-up pitches after Tucker's injury and B) the home plate umpire taking away the inside corner with the stupid warnings and ejection.
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Old 08-05-2003, 02:13 AM
Shoeless Joe Shoeless Joe is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kilroy
As much as I wanted to blame JM for yanking Garland after 79 pitches, I can't really.

Schoenweis got no one out. Whether or not Garland could have continued or not is not the issue. The relivers delivered some pretty piss-poor performances, end of story.

Just because the starter could have gone longer, doesn't change the fact that they didn't come thru and do their jobs. When he finally pulled him and got Ginter in, he was ejected along with him when Ginter intentionally plunked a Royal. So all that happened after that was pretty much on Nossek, w/out any evidence to the contrary.
I agree with you Kilroy, the bullpen implosion was absolutely disgusting. The only guy who did anything good was Kelly Wunsch. And even though the yank on Garland was very quick, the bullpen had no reason to go out there and throw batting practice.
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  #12  
Old 08-05-2003, 02:14 AM
IronFisk IronFisk is offline
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Okay, what am I missing here - 3 run lead, one on first, 6th inning, 77 PITCHES?!?! Manuel simply paniced and pulled the trigger too soon. They said this about Neil Armstrong when he coached the Bears - too afraid to lose to win.

Garland at best should've been given the chance to get through the inning. Really helps the old confidence factor, eh?

I've seen way too much of this crap over the last 3 years, and I'm sick of it. Mark my words, the ONLY way they will win this division is if they FIRE MANUEL NOW - before we free fall any further. Even if somehow we win the division with him, we are TOAST in the first round (a-la 2000).
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Old 08-05-2003, 02:25 AM
manuelsucks manuelsucks is offline
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All I can say about this day is...what a let down. The Sox look liked they had they game in the bag, then there come Mr. I'll Fix It to break things up again. Garland was not pitching that bad and I really do think if he stayed in there he could have done some good. Then Schoenweis surprised that hell out of me by not even getting an out. I mean yesterday he struck out 3 Mariners in a row if memory serves me correct. I think that some of the this games loss also is to be blamed on the defense. They just haven't looked sharp recently. If this team could just get back to fundamental baseball, they could be in first place. Thats all it takes. I really do think that Jerry just made some terrible calls that really brought the team down.

By the way did anyone see Garland after he was taken out. I don't think he liked the fact that he was taken out. Then after the commercial break he threw his water down. I wonder if he was angry at JM for taking him out early, or angry at himself. I think he was more mad at JM and not himself.

Overall this loss reallllly pisses me off. If they don't pick up the pace and win the next two games I don't know what I'll do. Like someone said earlier, the Sox are a bunch of teases.
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  #14  
Old 08-05-2003, 03:07 AM
HITMEN OF 77 HITMEN OF 77 is offline
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The thing I can't understand is that Schoenweis wants to be a starter for us. How can he do that if he can't even record an out? I thought this guy was suppose to be good? Him and Danny Wright are in the same boat. I knew we should have kept Biddle!! Biddle at least had cool sideburns. At least we have one good thing going for us tomorrow...Loaiza!!
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  #15  
Old 08-05-2003, 04:09 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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No one has mentioned the real problem in the game...Everett not getting to an easy flyout in the 6th that led to the first of the seven runs.
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