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  #1  
Old 08-12-2001, 01:21 AM
danman31 danman31 is offline
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Default How did we lose that game??????

We were in control and Foulke looked good, but didn't get the job done. If Foulke had used that 2-2 pitch to Ichiro better... I say Foulke should've put something close to the dirt on 2-2 and hope he swinge. Don't give him anything great to hit on 3-2. He should've been willing to walk Ichiro. So what if a run scores, all you have to do is get McLemore out. I think Foulke would've pitched differently to him if he still had the lead.
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:34 AM
Bmr31 Bmr31 is offline
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Default Re: How did we lose that game??????

Quote:
Originally posted by danman31
We were in control and Foulke looked good, but didn't get the job done. If Foulke had used that 2-2 pitch to Ichiro better... I say Foulke should've put something close to the dirt on 2-2 and hope he swinge. Don't give him anything great to hit on 3-2. He should've been willing to walk Ichiro. So what if a run scores, all you have to do is get McLemore out. I think Foulke would've pitched differently to him if he still had the lead.

Foulke is a very good pitcher. Foulke is not a closer and never will be a big time closer. HE lacks the great fastball. When will someone, ANYONE, in the sox organization realize this?????????
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  #3  
Old 08-12-2001, 01:38 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Where is it written that a closer has to have a phenomenal fastball? Some of the great closers of the past were Hoyt Wilhelm (knuckler) Rollie Fingers (hardly overpowering, just very clever) and so on. I can't think of other names right now, but I'm telling you that the overpowering closer was not always the norm.
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:40 AM
Bmr31 Bmr31 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Where is it written that a closer has to have a phenomenal fastball? Some of the great closers of the past were Hoyt Wilhelm (knuckler) Rollie Fingers (hardly overpowering, just very clever) and so on. I can't think of other names right now, but I'm telling you that the overpowering closer was not always the norm.
its written everywhere. You can name exceptions in anything. The fact is, you need a 95 plus fastball, to be a good closer.
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:40 AM
stosh stosh is offline
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This game was lost top of the first. I don't know what this fascination of trying to steal third is but it does'nt work and is getting old. Should have had at least 1 or 2 then. I agree with the poster who said Durham needs to sit, the guy is absolutely worthless in the clutch or lead-off. Foulke is getting a lot of blame and some deserved, but we have to get off these moronic baserunning decisions. Man, first Houston blows a great opportunity when the Flubs get killed and now this!! Let's play Tony Graf and get the hell rid of Durham.
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bmr31


its written everywhere. You can name exceptions in anything. The fact is, you need a 95 plus fastball, to be a good closer.
Oh, it's written everywhere because you say so? How about Sutter? The splitter was his specialty. How about the A's closer who used to be a Cubs starter (his name is escaping me)? Hardly a blazer.
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:45 AM
Bmr31 Bmr31 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox


Oh, it's written everywhere because you say so? How about Sutter? The splitter was his specialty. How about the A's closer who used to be a Cubs starter (his name is escaping me)? Hardly a blazer.

do i need to repeat my last post? i will if needed....
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:46 AM
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Default Re: Re: How did we lose that game??????

Quote:
Originally posted by Bmr31
Foulke is a very good pitcher. Foulke is not a closer and never will be a big time closer. HE lacks the great fastball. When will someone, ANYONE, in the sox organization realize this?????????
There's that guy in San Diego who also doesn't have an overpowering fastball, yet he is still a great closer. Foulke's problem today was that:
A) He sat on the bench for like 20 minutes after throwing ONE pitch. If he hadn't pitched in the 8th, I think he would have been sharper.
B) This is only Foulke's 2nd season of closing games, and he has this small problem were he sometimes over-excites himself. I think it is something he will grow out of.
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  #9  
Old 08-12-2001, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bmr31



do i need to repeat my last post? i will if needed....
Saying the same crap louder doesn't make it a fact.
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:50 AM
Bmr31 Bmr31 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox


Saying the same crap louder doesn't make it a fact.

okay my opinion is crap and yours isnt? Ok i see how it is. I guess that should tell you something huh?
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bmr31



okay my opinion is crap and yours isnt? Ok i see how it is. I guess that should tell you something huh?
That's not what I said at all. I have offered several examples that prove that your original statement was not true. Your only response is to say "do I need to repeat my last post" as if the last post was so clear and cogent as to destroy all argument.
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Old 08-12-2001, 01:58 AM
Bmr31 Bmr31 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox


That's not what I said at all. I have offered several examples that prove that your original statement was not true. Your only response is to say "do I need to repeat my last post" as if the last post was so clear and cogent as to destroy all argument.

you mentioned 3 or 4 closers in a history of thousands. Like i said, there are always exceptions to the rule. If closers didnt need heat, most wouldnt throw 97 mph....
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Old 08-12-2001, 02:03 AM
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You said it is a fact that you need a 95 plus fastball to be a good closer. That is called forming a hypothesis. I and another poster named not just a few but a bunch of hall-of-fame quality closers who did not have one. Null hypothesis (that a 95 plus fastball is not needed) supported, end of research.
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Old 08-12-2001, 02:04 AM
ode to veeck ode to veeck is offline
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and there's a lot of guys with great heat who will never be decent closers, a closer needs mental focus and control on at least of couple of really good pitches

fouke's lost of couple of critical games, one to ichiro tonight and one to the twinks ealrier in the season, but he's also won an awfully high percentage of save opportunities , he not a "average" or "AA" closer (still harping on bmr's semantics here)
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Old 08-12-2001, 02:05 AM
Bmr31 Bmr31 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
You said it is a fact that you need a 95 plus fastball to be a good closer. That is called forming a hypothesis. I and another poster named not just a few but a bunch of hall-of-fame quality closers who did not have one. Null hypothesis (that a 95 plus fastball is not needed) supported, end of research.
i NEVER said its a fact you need a 95mph fastball to be a good closer and id really appreciate it if you didnt put false words in my mouth
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