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  #1  
Old 11-03-2018, 02:25 PM
getonbckthr getonbckthr is offline
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Default White Sox Off-Season Plan

So looking at both Cots numbers currently for the Sox in 2019 as well as MLBTR's estimates for arbitration the Sox payroll sits around 48 million. Harper and Machado both sit at 26 years old. If the Sox were to offer both Machado and Harper identical 12 year/ 450 million dollar contracts front loaded where they are paid out 300m over the 1st 6 years and 40m in year 7 with opt outs every year after year 7 would that:

1- Get them both?
2- Make sense for the team?

My thinking is that would take both guys until thru their age 32 season. Remaining they would have 5/110 (22 million per) remaining. Logically if they continue on current career paths I would assume they would be able to get that 110 and then some as free agents at that point meaning a highly likely opt-out. The Sox would get them in their "prime" years yes at very high cost but considering the rest of the contracts would still have a manageable overall salary. Then when these opt outs occure it should coincide when our prospects Arb years would be ending. Plus if you sign Harper you can remove 8 million for Avisail's projected ARB number this year. I like to think signing both and the emergence of Eloy that we fans would show the appreciation and fill that place up thus generating more money plus any additional money from jerseys and shirts and whatever else they could put those 2 guys on. Then you factor that lets be honest our division really sucks and Cleveland at the top really isn't that impressive especially if they truly are considering dealing Carasco and Kluber this division would be for the taking giving us that punchers chance at a world series and even more unplanned additional revenue from playoff gates. I don't know just something I was thinking. I won't be offended if the whole board roasts me and calls me a moron lol.
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  #2  
Old 11-03-2018, 03:23 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getonbckthr View Post
So looking at both Cots numbers currently for the Sox in 2019 as well as MLBTR's estimates for arbitration the Sox payroll sits around 48 million. Harper and Machado both sit at 26 years old. If the Sox were to offer both Machado and Harper identical 12 year/ 450 million dollar contracts front loaded where they are paid out 300m over the 1st 6 years and 40m in year 7 with opt outs every year after year 7 would that:

1- Get them both?
2- Make sense for the team?

My thinking is that would take both guys until thru their age 32 season. Remaining they would have 5/110 (22 million per) remaining. Logically if they continue on current career paths I would assume they would be able to get that 110 and then some as free agents at that point meaning a highly likely opt-out. The Sox would get them in their "prime" years yes at very high cost but considering the rest of the contracts would still have a manageable overall salary. Then when these opt outs occure it should coincide when our prospects Arb years would be ending. Plus if you sign Harper you can remove 8 million for Avisail's projected ARB number this year. I like to think signing both and the emergence of Eloy that we fans would show the appreciation and fill that place up thus generating more money plus any additional money from jerseys and shirts and whatever else they could put those 2 guys on. Then you factor that lets be honest our division really sucks and Cleveland at the top really isn't that impressive especially if they truly are considering dealing Carasco and Kluber this division would be for the taking giving us that punchers chance at a world series and even more unplanned additional revenue from playoff gates. I don't know just something I was thinking. I won't be offended if the whole board roasts me and calls me a moron lol.
I want no part of a 10-year commitment for any free agent, much less 12.

In three years Harper would be an albatross blocking the young stud outfielders from playing. He makes no sense for the Sox at all.

I wish I could see into the future and know if Arenado is going to make it to free agency, but since I can't, I do think it makes sense in offering a frontloaded contract to Machado at a higher AAV than he can get from anyone else. Sox just need a way out in five years.
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2018, 03:34 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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The White Sox have 7-8 outfield prospects of note. If they cannot turn that into three MLB starters, they ought to shut down the team, demolish the stadium, and build some kind of really nice multi-use development at 35th and Shields. Harper makes no sense for the Sox.

Machado makes a ton of sense for the Sox. They can afford to throw a lot of money at him and should certainly do so. I doubt he'll come here because I imagine he wants to play for a contender, but they ought to try.

In my view, the Sox need, during the next three years, to sign:

(1) an All-Star caliber first baseman
(2) an All-Star caliber starting pitcher
(3) an All-Star caliber 3B, SS, or C

Machado fits #3.
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  #4  
Old 11-03-2018, 03:53 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica
I want no part of a 10-year commitment for any free agent, much less 12.

In three years Harper would be an albatross blocking the young stud outfielders from playing. He makes no sense for the Sox at all.

I wish I could see into the future and know if Arenado is going to make it to free agency, but since I can't, I do think it makes sense in offering a frontloaded contract to Machado at a higher AAV than he can get from anyone else. Sox just need a way out in five years.
Team outs after five years are a non-entity.
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  #5  
Old 11-03-2018, 04:03 PM
Noneck Noneck is online now
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He will sit back and enjoy the windfall with the lowest payroll since 2000.


After thinking more about it, he would like getting rid of abreu and garcia which will put them below 2000 and justify it as part of the rebuild.

Last edited by Noneck; 11-03-2018 at 07:08 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-03-2018, 06:00 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getonbckthr View Post
So looking at both Cots numbers currently for the Sox in 2019 as well as MLBTR's estimates for arbitration the Sox payroll sits around 48 million. Harper and Machado both sit at 26 years old. If the Sox were to offer both Machado and Harper identical 12 year/ 450 million dollar contracts front loaded where they are paid out 300m over the 1st 6 years and 40m in year 7 with opt outs every year after year 7 would that:

1- Get them both?
2- Make sense for the team?

My thinking is that would take both guys until thru their age 32 season. Remaining they would have 5/110 (22 million per) remaining. Logically if they continue on current career paths I would assume they would be able to get that 110 and then some as free agents at that point meaning a highly likely opt-out. The Sox would get them in their "prime" years yes at very high cost but considering the rest of the contracts would still have a manageable overall salary. Then when these opt outs occure it should coincide when our prospects Arb years would be ending. Plus if you sign Harper you can remove 8 million for Avisail's projected ARB number this year. I like to think signing both and the emergence of Eloy that we fans would show the appreciation and fill that place up thus generating more money plus any additional money from jerseys and shirts and whatever else they could put those 2 guys on. Then you factor that lets be honest our division really sucks and Cleveland at the top really isn't that impressive especially if they truly are considering dealing Carasco and Kluber this division would be for the taking giving us that punchers chance at a world series and even more unplanned additional revenue from playoff gates. I don't know just something I was thinking. I won't be offended if the whole board roasts me and calls me a moron lol.

This is a bit of an unrealistic post to start out a thread on our overall offseason plan. Sox aren't getting both Harper and Machado, especially at 12 years, $400 mil plus.

To those saying Harper "makes no sense", how do you figure? You think having a 3/4 of Harper/Jimenez doesn't make sense? That could be the next Ortiz/Ramirez type middle of the order. Simply siting that the Sox have a lot of outfield depth in the minors doesn't mean getting a former MVP (also would have won another in '17 if he didn't trip over 1st base and mess his knee up) is a bad idea, far from it. Outside of Jimenez, none of the OF prospects are close to a lock, let alone MVP/all star players.

If the Sox sign Harper, then the depth in OF prospects a year or 2 from now will be used to fill in CF and DH, and be able to rotate Eloy and Harper to DH to help rest them. Any extra prospects can be used to fill in holes that might be at 3b, 1b and pitching.

I'm all for offering Harper a front loaded contract of 10-11 years with AAV close to $40 mil the first few years and giving him an opt out after year 5.
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  #7  
Old 11-03-2018, 08:15 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I want no part of a 10-year commitment for any free agent, much less 12.

In three years Harper would be an albatross blocking the young stud outfielders from playing. He makes no sense for the Sox at all.

I wish I could see into the future and know if Arenado is going to make it to free agency, but since I can't, I do think it makes sense in offering a frontloaded contract to Machado at a higher AAV than he can get from anyone else. Sox just need a way out in five years.

Spot on...



Long term, big money contracts are a disasters waiting to happen.


Machado? If you in the organization entertain signing him you'd better have a way out while he's south of thirty.
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2018, 11:09 PM
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This is over a week old, but I love this piece that demands the Sox ditch the small-market mentality and act like the big boys they should be.
https://theloopsports.com/2018/10/26...-sox-its-time/
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2018, 11:39 PM
Noneck Noneck is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
This is over a week old, but I love this piece that demands the Sox ditch the small-market mentality and act like the big boys they should be.
https://theloopsports.com/2018/10/26...-sox-its-time/



This is coming from a fan not a billionaire business man. When one has a good return on investment guaranteed there is no reason to take a chance on your return. When you are also a fan then its different. Mike Ilitch was also a fan.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2018, 11:59 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
This is over a week old, but I love this piece that demands the Sox ditch the small-market mentality and act like the big boys they should be.
https://theloopsports.com/2018/10/26...-sox-its-time/
I admire his passion...but it's not happening. Not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow.

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  #11  
Old 11-05-2018, 12:27 PM
JohnTucker0814 JohnTucker0814 is offline
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I am happy to take both Machado and Harper... it won't happen, but anyone saying they wouldn't take both really are thinking too much like they own the team and not a fan.

Harper and Machado hitting 3/4 and Eloy, Abrue, Moncada, Anderson hitting around him this year would make us an instant playoff contender.

Then adding Madrigal, Robert, Cease, Kopech, Dunning to the mix in 2020, makes us the a World Series contender for the next 3-4 years.

If we have to have Machado and Harper on the other side of 30 with bad contract, but we were World Series contenders for 5+ years, it is worth it to me!

We just went through some very rough years, I really don't care if that is the cycle as long as we have 4-5 years of true World Series aspirations between them.

Also, don't you think this team would be flush with capital instantly by signing both of these players? The sponsorships, TV Deals, etc would come rolling in for the ownership and they could virtually pay for the two deals.

Yes, we should be a major market like the Red Sox, Dodgers, Cubs, etc.

Looking at our budget, we still would never be over $200 Million in yearly payroll even if we signed these guys to $400+ contracts! We have the ability, especially if we front load the contracts.

As a fan... yes, please sign both of them, also go ahead and sign Kimbrel and a SP too.
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2018, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnTucker0814 View Post
I am happy to take both Machado and Harper... it won't happen, but anyone saying they wouldn't take both really are thinking too much like they own the team and not a fan.

Harper and Machado hitting 3/4 and Eloy, Abrue, Moncada, Anderson hitting around him this year would make us an instant playoff contender.

Then adding Madrigal, Robert, Cease, Kopech, Dunning to the mix in 2020, makes us the a World Series contender for the next 3-4 years.

If we have to have Machado and Harper on the other side of 30 with bad contract, but we were World Series contenders for 5+ years, it is worth it to me!

We just went through some very rough years, I really don't care if that is the cycle as long as we have 4-5 years of true World Series aspirations between them.

Also, don't you think this team would be flush with capital instantly by signing both of these players? The sponsorships, TV Deals, etc would come rolling in for the ownership and they could virtually pay for the two deals.

Yes, we should be a major market like the Red Sox, Dodgers, Cubs, etc.

Looking at our budget, we still would never be over $200 Million in yearly payroll even if we signed these guys to $400+ contracts! We have the ability, especially if we front load the contracts.

As a fan... yes, please sign both of them, also go ahead and sign Kimbrel and a SP too.
You left out that signing one or both of them would make some highly touted prospects excellent trade bait to shore up other positions.
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2018, 03:39 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is online now
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I also think it will take so much pressure off these kids to have some real bats.
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:03 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Machado and Harper would still each have to put up ~10 WAR each just to make this a .500-ish team. Do we really think Eloy would add the ~6 WAR in his rookie season to get us to 87 wins?

And even if so, does that lineup have enough to overcome the yawning gaps in the starting rotation after Rodon, Lopez, and Giolito?

Wishcast all you want, but arguing to sign both Harper and Machado is madness.
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:19 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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And even if so, does that lineup have enough to overcome the yawning gaps in the starting rotation after Rodon, Lopez, and Giolito?
Hard to say. I’d confidently say that both of their gloves would help save a ton of runs.
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