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View Poll Results: How worried are you about Moncada?
Not worried 19 20.65%
Somewhat worried 26 28.26%
Worried 20 21.74%
Very worried 20 21.74%
Only worried if he hates churros 7 7.61%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 08-08-2018, 12:36 PM
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thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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Default How worried are you about Moncada?

Recently, my anxiety level with him has increased with all the strikeouts. Let's hope he gets it together.
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  #2  
Old 08-08-2018, 12:40 PM
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FielderJones FielderJones is offline
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I'm not worried at all. The kid is getting a workout from the incompetent home plate umpires he seems to get every series. If there was an electronic strike zone, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Moncada's plate discipline is excellent. Unlike a lot of young players, he isn't waving at pitches a foot out of the strike zone.
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  #3  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:07 PM
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Good thing WSI did not exist when Robin Ventura started playing.
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  #4  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:10 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FielderJones View Post
I'm not worried at all. The kid is getting a workout from the incompetent home plate umpires he seems to get every series. If there was an electronic strike zone, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Moncada's plate discipline is excellent. Unlike a lot of young players, he isn't waving at pitches a foot out of the strike zone.
There's some truth to this- but blaming the umpires for his ~.200 batting average after a decent April is a real stretch.
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  #5  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:11 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Good thing WSI did not exist when Robin Ventura started playing.
No kidding. Iím more worried about those among us hardcores who canít wait all these massive growing pains by the entire organization out.
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  #6  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:15 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FielderJones View Post
I'm not worried at all. The kid is getting a workout from the incompetent home plate umpires he seems to get every series. If there was an electronic strike zone, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Moncada's plate discipline is excellent. Unlike a lot of young players, he isn't waving at pitches a foot out of the strike zone.
Agreed. All in all, he's only about 10% worse than league average by most numbers, and one would think he can't get all that much worse from here. This is basically his floor, and believe it or not, he's not a total black hole--compared to the rest of the league, he's been a slightly below average starting second baseman. Even if he doesn't figure it ALL out and become a superstar, it's hard not to see him improving at least somewhat, and if he manages to figure out how to use maybe half of his upside, he'll still become at the very least a serviceable starting infielder.

At a certain point all of these conversations come back to the fact that the results this year are terrible, and that was probably always going to be the case. Player development is not linear, there are ups and downs and improvements and regressions that don't go in sequential order a lot of the time. Right now, it's about the process. All we can do is hope Moncada et al are learning from these results and that it'll start to pay off a year or two down the line.

Being patient and following this through doesn't mean getting antsy if things aren't improving by August. Even with top prospects, most of these guys don't show up and immediately put up big numbers. The Javy Baezes of the world who need at least 2 or 3 years of experience to really figure it out are far more common than the Kris Bryants who don't.

By now it's clear that Moncada isn't one of those guys. If he's going to reach the upside that we want him to, there's no choice but to be patient and not freak out. It should be obvious that he's not just going to flip a switch. It's a process. Hopefully Eloy is one of those generational guys that just has it from the beginning, and the pressure will be taken off Yoan. In conclusion, for the fifth time, I still fully believe in him, it's just going to be a longer process than we would have liked, so I think we need to just go with it.
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  #7  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:16 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FielderJones View Post
I'm not worried at all. The kid is getting a workout from the incompetent home plate umpires he seems to get every series. If there was an electronic strike zone, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Moncada's plate discipline is excellent. Unlike a lot of young players, he isn't waving at pitches a foot out of the strike zone.

So tired of this excuse making.



So 160 Strikeouts are all on the bad umpiring? Come on, we are starting to sound like Cub Fans.
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  #8  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:17 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
No kidding. I’m more worried about those among us hardcores who can’t wait all these massive growing pains by the entire organization out.
Somebody said it in another thread, but yeah, it's like people were on board with the idea but didn't quite have an understanding of what growing _pains_ actually are.

Like, the whole point of a rebuild and a young, deep farm system is that you don't need everyone to come up as finished products. Some hit, some miss, some underachieve, some overachieve, and at this point in time, we're maybe 15% deep into figuring out who in this organization is what.
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  #9  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:20 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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I really think Sox fans need to be patient. He is young, he is talented, and deserves the time to show us who he is.

For ****s sake, we were all much more forgiving of Beckham even though he had fewer positives than Moncada.

It looks ugly right now, but James Fegan made an excellent point on twitter. The Sox never gave in on Avisail, and waited his progression out. He is slowly beginning to pay dividends.

Moncada is far more talented, and the Sox will not give up on him anytime soon.

Besides, the pressure will be off of him in a little bit when Eloy and Kopech are up, and he is no longer the only hope for the future.

Let it play out. If by 2020, he is still garbage, then we can call it a wash and see what we can do.
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  #10  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:20 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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He's leading the league in strikeouts, hitting around the Mendoza line, his OBP is below average, and his slugging is below average. Nothing to see here!


The only thing making me think there's a chance he'll be a productive big leaguer is his ability to take pitches out of the zone. It's not as helpful when you are so woefully bad at even making contact in the zone though. When pitchers figured that out, his numbers plummeted. With an entirely new approach I could see him coming back from this disastrous start to his career, but that kind of change isn't likely to happen in the big leagues. I'm not very hopeful.
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  #11  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:21 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
So tired of this excuse making.



So 160 Strikeouts are all on the bad umpiring? Come on, we are starting to sound like Cub Fans.
But when he should only have 120 or those strike outs it suddenly makes him look like a pretty good ball player with an impressive OBP.
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  #12  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:23 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
He's leading the league in strikeouts, hitting around the Mendoza line, his OBP is below average, and his slugging is below average. Nothing to see here!


The only thing making me think there's a chance he'll be a productive big leaguer is his ability to take pitches out of the zone. It's not as helpful when you are so woefully bad at even making contact in the zone though. When pitchers figured that out, his numbers plummeted. With an entirely new approach I could see him coming back from this disastrous start to his career, but that kind of change isn't likely to happen in the big leagues. I'm not very hopeful.
Think about this for a second... you're basically saying that what a player is when he's a rookie is what he'll be for the rest of his career. Come on, man. You know that's not true. Jose Ramirez is having an all time great season right now and by this logic Cleveland should have cut him three years ago. We don't need that kind of hyperbole.
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  #13  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:24 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
But when he should only have 120 or those strike outs it suddenly makes him look like a pretty good ball player with an impressive OBP.
You're insisting that he's struck out looking 40 times in at bats where the call was incorrect? And then you're inferring that instead of a called strike three he'd reach base somehow?

The rest of his numbers do not support that argument. The most likely outcome is he'd still strike out.
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  #14  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:32 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
You're insisting that he's struck out looking 40 times in at bats where the call was incorrect? And then you're inferring that instead of a called strike three he'd reach base somehow?

The rest of his numbers do not support that argument. The most likely outcome is he'd still strike out.
I am pretty sure many of those were in 3/2 situations.
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  #15  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:35 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzh View Post
Think about this for a second... you're basically saying that what a player is when he's a rookie is what he'll be for the rest of his career. Come on, man. You know that's not true. Jose Ramirez is having an all time great season right now and by this logic Cleveland should have cut him three years ago. We don't need that kind of hyperbole.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...amirjo01.shtml

Ramirez for reference, and Altuve was a negative WAR player for the first three years of his career. Not sure what else there is to say then to wait it out.
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