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  #1  
Old 04-23-2018, 01:55 PM
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FielderJones FielderJones is offline
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Post What Rebuilding Looks Like

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2011.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2012.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2013.shtml

Note the red lines on the game results. Especially note Jul 17 - Aug 9 2012, and Sep 14 - Sep 29 2013.

Note also the first pick of the 2013 draft. Somehow all this was overcome just four years later.
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  #2  
Old 04-23-2018, 02:50 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FielderJones View Post
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2011.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2012.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2013.shtml

Note the red lines on the game results. Especially note Jul 17 - Aug 9 2012, and Sep 14 - Sep 29 2013.

Note also the first pick of the 2013 draft. Somehow all this was overcome just four years later.
Also notable is that the only significant name ahead of the Tim Anderson pick is Kris Bryant. The only two significant ones after Anderson are Aaron Judge and Sean "Who are the Red Sox?" Manaea.
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  #3  
Old 04-23-2018, 03:16 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Just an excellent post.
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  #4  
Old 04-23-2018, 03:33 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
just an excellent post.
+1
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  #5  
Old 04-23-2018, 03:44 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Just an excellent post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
+1
Agreed.

Not only did the Astros screw up their #1 pick chance in 2013, but they also DFA'd this guy in spring training 2014:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...artijd02.shtml
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  #6  
Old 04-23-2018, 03:53 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Also notable is that the only significant name ahead of the Tim Anderson pick is Kris Bryant. The only two significant ones after Anderson are Aaron Judge and Sean "Who are the Red Sox?" Manaea.
I posted something similar on the Minor Observations board. For all of the hand-wringing we do about White Sox drafting foibles, there's a very small number of guys they missed on that would have made a huge difference. I went through all of their first round draft picks from '99 - '12 and the only 3 names they passed on that jump off the page are Trout, Votto, and Seager.
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  #7  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:04 PM
johnny bench johnny bench is offline
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Altuve WAR history shows 3 years of suckage before he started producing

2011 - 0.6
2012 - 1.4
2013 - 1.0
2014 - 6.1
2015 - 4.8
2016 - 7.9
2017 - 8.1
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  #8  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:23 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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My friends who are die-hard Sox fans but are not on WSI are unanimous in their excitement about 2020. They are excited about this year as well (they understand that you learn from mistakes which is what our young players are doing).
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  #9  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:28 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny bench View Post
Altuve WAR history shows 3 years of suckage before he started producing

2011 - 0.6
2012 - 1.4
2013 - 1.0
2014 - 6.1
2015 - 4.8
2016 - 7.9
2017 - 8.1
This is a good post. Rebuilding is not always a linear path. Check out Alex Gordon's WAR history that takes him from his rookie campaign through their World Series winner in 2015 right before he entered the decline phase of his career:

2007- 2.0
2008- 2.8
2009- 0.3
2010: -0.5
2011: 7.3 (light bulb turns on)
2012: 6.3
2013: 4.3
2014: 6.5
2015: 2.8

That being said, the Sox are pretty far removed from having a position player success story so I can understand fans being skeptical until they see it happen.
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  #10  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:25 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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And let's not forget, the non-rebuilding Sox under Ventura were just as frustrating.
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  #11  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:39 PM
TomC727 TomC727 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Also notable is that the only significant name ahead of the Tim Anderson pick is Kris Bryant. The only two significant ones after Anderson are Aaron Judge and Sean "Who are the Red Sox?" Manaea.
I mentioned this in a previous post and Iíll say it again. What the Astros have done is even more impressive than the north side team and other rebuilt teams is that the Astros missed on the first pick in back to back drafts in 2013 and 2014 (Mark Appel and Brady Aiken).

White Sox fans would be out with pitchforks if this happened to this organization.
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  #12  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:41 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FielderJones View Post
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2011.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2012.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2013.shtml

Note the red lines on the game results. Especially note Jul 17 - Aug 9 2012, and Sep 14 - Sep 29 2013.

Note also the first pick of the 2013 draft. Somehow all this was overcome just four years later.
Wait a minute, you mean that 2013 team had Altuve, Keuchel, and JD Martinez and still lost 111 games? This is NOT what a rebuild is supposed to look like.

Oh, and speaking of Keuchel, can we say "BUST"? He's already 25 (in 2013) and sporting an ERA over 5. According to the arm-chair GMs and scouts on WSI, that's well past the point of having hope that a prospect will "figure things out."
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  #13  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:43 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FielderJones View Post
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2011.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2012.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2013.shtml

Note the red lines on the game results. Especially note Jul 17 - Aug 9 2012, and Sep 14 - Sep 29 2013.

Note also the first pick of the 2013 draft. Somehow all this was overcome just four years later.
Sure it can be done.
It can also turn out like the Royals and Pirates...take 20 years to win, and the winning lasts for 3.
Is this FO like the Astros, or is it like the Royals and Pirates?
Based on the drafting, it isn't like the Astros......

Last edited by Tragg; 04-23-2018 at 06:50 PM.
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  #14  
Old 04-23-2018, 07:13 PM
Sargeant79 Sargeant79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny bench View Post
Altuve WAR history shows 3 years of suckage before he started producing

2011 - 0.6
2012 - 1.4
2013 - 1.0
2014 - 6.1
2015 - 4.8
2016 - 7.9
2017 - 8.1
Thank you for posting this. We all need to keep this in mind whenever we get the urge to complain about Moncada's progress.
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  #15  
Old 04-23-2018, 07:27 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSox2K3 View Post
Wait a minute, you mean that 2013 team had Altuve, Keuchel, and JD Martinez and still lost 111 games? This is NOT what a rebuild is supposed to look like.

Oh, and speaking of Keuchel, can we say "BUST"? He's already 25 (in 2013) and sporting an ERA over 5. According to the arm-chair GMs and scouts on WSI, that's well past the point of having hope that a prospect will "figure things out."
Please comment on players, not on other posters posts unless it is directly related to the content of a given post. Making broad sweeping generalizations about other posters or groups of posters is what we are trying to get away from.
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