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  #61  
Old 12-01-2017, 06:33 AM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Better contract. They are reported to like the salary and the two year length better than what it would take to land a FA.

I don't know if they think Abreu is a better player, but I do.

Abreu makes much more sense for Boston than Boston's trade bait does for us.
Agreed. Boston is also looking for power which Abreu provides more of than Hosmer. But they still don't have the pieces to move any more.

Texas on the other hand has some guys that might fit....
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  #62  
Old 12-01-2017, 10:15 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Dave Cameron thinks that trading Jackie Bradley Jr. for Jose Abreu would be a bad move for the Red Sox....

Don't Trade Jackie Bradley For Jose Abreu

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Trading Bradley for Abreu would make the Red Sox worse, not better. Itís just not something the organization should want to do. That doesnít mean they shouldnít trade for Abreu, though. If the White Sox request is more reasonable, and they can add Abreu while keeping Bradley for themselves, thatís certainly something worth exploring.
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  #63  
Old 12-01-2017, 11:40 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Dave Cameron thinks that trading Jackie Bradley Jr. for Jose Abreu would be a bad move for the Red Sox....

Don't Trade Jackie Bradley For Jose Abreu
Makes me wonder if Cameron has seen Abreu play.
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  #64  
Old 12-01-2017, 12:12 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Be that as it may, he is only guaranteed to be here for two more years, both of which figure to be years where the player makes nearly $20 million and the team finishes out of playoff contention.

Option A is to keep the player in the hopes that he stays healthy and productive, re-signs when his contract expires, and stays healthy and productive during the life of his new contract.

Option B is to trade the player for young, cost-controlled talent that may (or may not) help the team in future years.

Both options carry risks, but with this team’s competitive window looking like it will fall entirely outside Abreu’s two years of guaranteed team control, I think option B is the better bet for the franchise’s long-term outlook.
What Abreu will make with the White Sox in 2018 and 2019 shouldn't be the driving factor in whether to trade him. I sure as hell hope RH and JR aren't thinking it does! The Sox will have a low payroll the next couple of years and Abreu's salary will not impede them from acquiring other talent via FA. The Sox are in rebuild mode, not slash payroll mode.

I'm fine with trading him if it really helps the team long-term (in other words, 2020 and beyond). But, if teams aren't offering much for him, i'm fine with keeping him. Who knows, maybe a better offer will come along at the trade deadline.
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  #65  
Old 12-01-2017, 12:16 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Lots of teams get desperate at the deadline. Based on how Hahn slow-played Quintana, I'm sure he won't feel any obligation to trade Abreu unless the offer is outstanding.

IMO, Hahn has earned a presumption on the part of White Sox fans that he will only let our good talent go in exchange for a decent return.
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  #66  
Old 12-01-2017, 05:42 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by asindc
Makes me wonder if Cameron has seen Abreu play.
Cameron immediately mentioned that Abreu was the superior hitter. The rest of the article, stressing Bradley Jr.'s extra value both defensively and on the base paths, was spot-on as well. Cameron is not ill-informed in this instance.

No one is saying that Jose Abreu isn't a good player. Cameron's point is that Jackie Bradley Jr. is also a good player.
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  #67  
Old 12-01-2017, 08:28 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Cameron immediately mentioned that Abreu was the superior hitter. The rest of the article, stressing Bradley Jr.'s extra value both defensively and on the base paths, was spot-on as well. Cameron is not ill-informed in this instance.

No one is saying that Jose Abreu isn't a good player. Cameron's point is that Jackie Bradley Jr. is also a good player.
Jackie Bradley Jr. is just not a good hitter. I hope both sides run from this potential deal.
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  #68  
Old 12-02-2017, 08:13 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Cameron immediately mentioned that Abreu was the superior hitter. The rest of the article, stressing Bradley Jr.'s extra value both defensively and on the base paths, was spot-on as well. Cameron is not ill-informed in this instance.

No one is saying that Jose Abreu isn't a good player. Cameron's point is that Jackie Bradley Jr. is also a good player.
Iím not suggesting he is ill-informed about Abreu being a good hitter, Iím saying he is wrong about Bradley being valuable enough to not want to trade him for Abreu.
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  #69  
Old 12-02-2017, 08:36 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Iím not suggesting he is ill-informed about Abreu being a good hitter, Iím saying he is wrong about Bradley being valuable enough to not want to trade him for Abreu.
The problem is, you are totally undervaluing centerfield defense and over valuing 1b offense.

Abreu is a monster bat, but 19 1b last year had an OPS over .792. Even with his tremendous year, he was outside the top 5 1b in OPS last year, outside the top 10 in WAR 2 years ago and was 10th 3 years ago.

I wouldn't do the trade because of Bradley's age, but I wouldn't be shocked if Bradley is the more valuable player over the next 3 years. Not saying he will be for sure, but it just depends on if you think Bradley is the player he was last year (worth 2.8 WAR in his worst full season as a pro) or the guy he was the previous 2 years (potential to be a 5-6 WAR CF).

The other concern I have on Bradley is durability. Part of Abreu's value comes in how durable he has been.

I don't think this is the right trade to make. Like I said, I would entertain Groome. Getting a top 40/45 prospect as the headliner for Abreu is fine for me. Especially given I think Abreu would consider resigning here when he hit FA.
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  #70  
Old 12-02-2017, 12:27 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domeshot17
The problem is, you are totally undervaluing centerfield defense and over valuing 1b offense.

Abreu is a monster bat, but 19 1b last year had an OPS over .792. Even with his tremendous year, he was outside the top 5 1b in OPS last year, outside the top 10 in WAR 2 years ago and was 10th 3 years ago.
Exactly. League-wide split OPS for 1B was .833 last season. You canít just look at Abreuís good offensive numbers in absolute terms. You have to look at them in relative terms compared to other 1B possibilities.
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  #71  
Old 12-02-2017, 02:11 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Exactly. League-wide split OPS for 1B was .833 last season. You canít just look at Abreuís good offensive numbers in absolute terms. You have to look at them in relative terms compared to other 1B possibilities.
This is true -- and why I was never a fan of Paul Konerko.

But Abreu > Konerko, and that's harder to find than a defensive outfielder.
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  #72  
Old 12-02-2017, 02:23 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Exactly. League-wide split OPS for 1B was .833 last season. You canít just look at Abreuís good offensive numbers in absolute terms. You have to look at them in relative terms compared to other 1B possibilities.
This concept is lost on a lot of people. Well said.
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  #73  
Old 12-02-2017, 05:31 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica
This is true -- and why I was never a fan of Paul Konerko.

But Abreu > Konerko, and that's harder to find than a defensive outfielder.
If you are convinced that Bradley is incapable of putting up the .830 OPS he put up in 2015 and 2016, then yes, he is pretty much only a “speed and defense” guy. His ISO took a 110-point nose-dive last year.

If he gets back to previous levels, though, an .830 OPS with high-quality defense in CF is more valuable than a .900 OPS at 1B.
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  #74  
Old 12-02-2017, 09:04 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If you are convinced that Bradley is incapable of putting up the .830 OPS he put up in 2015 and 2016, then yes, he is pretty much only a “speed and defense” guy. His ISO took a 110-point nose-dive last year.

If he gets back to previous levels, though, an .830 OPS with high-quality defense in CF is more valuable than a .900 OPS at 1B.
2015 was 255 at bats. I think his true level is around .740. Career is .726.

Now if Boston wants Avi, I'd make that trade.
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  #75  
Old 12-02-2017, 09:30 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If you are convinced that Bradley is incapable of putting up the .830 OPS he put up in 2015 and 2016, then yes, he is pretty much only a ďspeed and defenseĒ guy. His ISO took a 110-point nose-dive last year.

If he gets back to previous levels, though, an .830 OPS with high-quality defense in CF is more valuable than a .900 OPS at 1B.
Depends on what your needs are. If you need a CF then he is more valuable if you aren't simply moving your teams hole from CF to 1B. If you don't need a CF (we supposedly have Luis Robert tagged for CF) then he isn't worth creating a hole at 1B.
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