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  #1  
Old 09-29-2017, 11:17 PM
cub killer cub killer is offline
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Default Where do the 2005 Sox rank all time

IMO, the 05 Sox are the best in MLB history. Period. 11-1 is still tops, I don't think the 76 Reds would have done better in an expanded playoff. The 99 NYY's 1 loss was much worse than our 1 loss. Let's go thru the years and compare the 05 Champs to MLB history...

Obviously, we destroy any 1800s team or dead ball era team. We sweep the 1903 Red Sox, 1905 Giants, Hitless Wonders, 1907 and 1908 cubs, 1917 Sox, 1918 Red Sox, 1919 Reds, etc. We sweep all deadball teams in a best of 7. Same with the Babe Ruth era. We sweep Murderer's Row, and all champs from the 20s and 30s, up until 1945.

I believe the 45 Tigers are the first team in MLB history who would get 1 win vs the 05 Sox in a best of 7. The 46 Cards would also get a win against us. Then we sweep all teams until 1957. That includes the 55 Bums. But the 57 Braves get 1 win vs the Sox. The rest of the decade gets swept, including the 59 Dodgers.

60s get swept until 1967. The 67 Cards would stretch us to 7 games, I believe, but they'd still lose. 68 Tigers get swept. 69 Mets get 1 win. 70 Os lose in 7, so do 71 Bucs. We beat the 3peat As in 4,5 and 6 games, respectively. 75 Reds take us to 6 before their demise. 76 Reds take us to 7, then lose. We beat the 77 and 78 NYY in 6. 79 Pirates lose in 5.

80 Phi lose in 5
81 Dodgers lose in 6
82 Stl lose in 7
83 Os lose in 6
84 Tigers take us to extras in game 7, but lose in the 13th inning at Tiger Stadium. All champs before 05 get HFA.
85 KC lose in 6
86 Mets lose in 7
87 Twins lose in 6
88 Dodgers lose in 5
89 As lose in 7
90 Reds lose in 6
91 Twins get swept
92 Jays go down in 6 games
93 Jays lose in 7
95 Braves lose in 7
96 NYY lose in 6
97 Marlins lose 4 games to 2
98 NYY take us to the 14th inning in game 7, but lose in Yankee Stadium
99 NYY also go down in 7
00 NYY lose in 6
01 D-Bax go 7 games, but Big Unit gets outpitched in finale
02 Angels lose in 5
03 Marlins lose in 7
04 Red Sox get swept
Now the Sox get HFA from this point on
06 Cards go down in 7
07 Red Sox go 7 as well, but fail
08 Phi lose in 6
09 NYY get beaten in 7
10 Giants get swept
11 Cards go down in 7
12 Giants in 6
13 Red Sox in 7
14 Giants in 6
15 KC in 6
16 obviously get swept badly

So there you have it. 84 Det, and 98/99 NYY would give the 05 Sox the toughest time, but all would still lose. Best in MLB history.

If there are any disagreements, please say so. Thanx.
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  #2  
Old 09-29-2017, 11:45 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Everyone points to the 1927 Yankees as the greatest. The '27 Yankees were in first place wire to wire and swept the World Series.

Only one other team in history repeated that feat.


The 2005 White Sox. First place in the AL overall, not just division, wire to wire.
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  #3  
Old 09-29-2017, 11:58 PM
Falstaff Falstaff is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Everyone points to the 1927 Yankees as the greatest. The '27 Yankees were in first place wire to wire and swept the World Series.

Only one other team in history repeated that feat.


The 2005 White Sox. First place in the AL overall, not just division, wire to wire.
Thanks to guys like Geoff Blum
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  #4  
Old 09-30-2017, 12:10 AM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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It was an impressive feat. For that one year they were far and away the best sweeping their way through the long modern playoff system against the best of the league, something teams like the '27 Yankees can't claim.

That said, it is almost impossible to compare teams from different eras and as much as I love the 2005 team I have a hard time thinking of them as being better than some of the previous champions.

Teams are champions of their own year or their own era and that is what counts.

For that one year they were as good as it gets.
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Old 09-30-2017, 12:37 AM
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Can't tell if this is a tongue-in-cheek post or not. If we're truly ranking the greatest teams of the last 125+ years, the 05 Sox are probably top 35-40 or so. Nothing to sneeze at, but a team of very good players and no great ones that got hot (and a little lucky) at the right time doesn't measure up to some of the greatest teams ever (Big Red machine, 27-28 and 39 Yankees, 70 Orioles, etc.)

Comparing that team to the AL juggernauts of this year, they'd be a comfortable third behind Cleveland (who may have the best top to bottom pitching staff ever) and Houston (who has the best offense relative to league average in 40 years).

But honestly, I prefer it that way. It's more fun to be an 05 Sox than an 85 Bears or 96 Bulls. Makes the postseason much more exciting when you aren't a shoo-in.
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  #6  
Old 09-30-2017, 04:45 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by shes View Post
Comparing that team to the AL juggernauts of this year, they'd be a comfortable third behind Cleveland (who may have the best top to bottom pitching staff ever) and Houston (who has the best offense relative to league average in 40 years).
I know it's subjective. I won't touch the offense question for now.

As for the contention that the Indians may be the best staff from top to bottom is easily countered.

I can think of a couple of staffs Catfish Hunter was on, the A's of the early 70's and the Yankees of the mid to late 70's that were better.

The A's staff that Billy Martin supposedly burned out was better. The 1966 Dodgers staff was better, the 1971 Orioles were better and Bob Feller was on a staff in 1954 that was better. Didn't the White Sox in there runs theough the 1950's and 1960's have great staffs too?

I am sure I am missing some Yankees staffs from their runs in the mid 90's through to the early naughts that were better. BTW, no closer the Indians can throw out there is better than Mariano Rivera.

Of course, IMO.

But I will say, w/o fear of being labeled as one susceptible to subjection, that the mid 90's Braves staff was the better that anything these 2017 Indians can throw out there.

Hopefully these Indians will flame out more spectacularly this year than last.
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Last edited by Grzegorz; 09-30-2017 at 04:51 AM.
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  #7  
Old 09-30-2017, 06:46 AM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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No doubt that the 2005 White Sox were something special with us Sox fans but to knowledgeable baseball fans if asked would not rank them anywhere close to one of the best teams ever. We just got hot in the playoffs and don't forget they let a 15 game lead dwindle down to a game and a half. If you were to ask a lot of baseball fans from other cities when the last time the Sox won a World Series, they couldn't tell you, people remember teams that were one of the greatest. To compare them to all the great Yankee teams of the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s and early 60s not to mention all the great Dodger, Cardinal and quite a few other teams down through the years? No way.

One other thing, I think the 1983 Sox from late May to the end of the season played the best baseball I've ever seen from the Southsiders, they were almost unbeatable, they went 81-37 in the last 118 games with a winning % of .686 (that comes out to 111 wins in a 162 game season). It would be fun to watch the 83 team play the 2005 team in a 7 game playoff.
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  #8  
Old 09-30-2017, 08:00 AM
Railsplitter Railsplitter is offline
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I've seen a book that makes a claim as the 1939 Yankees as being a better team than the 1927 Yankees.

Yes, the 2005 Sox were good, But I don't see them beating The Murder's Row or the M&M Yankees.

What about the 1929 Athletics? Does Connie Mack's best team get swept?


I think Sparky's 1976 Reds team is the most underrated team ever. They pulled off a double sweep, something nobody else did in the two division era, but since that was after what some consider the Best World Series ever, and the '76 Reds won fewer games than the '75 that gets forgotten
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:42 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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27 yanks and 05 Sox, flip a coin.
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:58 AM
TommyJohn TommyJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
No doubt that the 2005 White Sox were something special with us Sox fans but to knowledgeable baseball fans if asked would not rank them anywhere close to one of the best teams ever. We just got hot in the playoffs and don't forget they let a 15 game lead dwindle down to a game and a half. If you were to ask a lot of baseball fans from other cities when the last time the Sox won a World Series, they couldn't tell you, people remember teams that were one of the greatest. To compare them to all the great Yankee teams of the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s and early 60s not to mention all the great Dodger, Cardinal and quite a few other teams down through the years? No way.

One other thing, I think the 1983 Sox from late May to the end of the season played the best baseball I've ever seen from the Southsiders, they were almost unbeatable, they went 81-37 in the last 118 games with a winning % of .686 (that comes out to 111 wins in a 162 game season). It would be fun to watch the 83 team play the 2005 team in a 7 game playoff.

They didn't just get hot in the playoffs. They went 99-63 and were in first place every single day of the season. And the 15 game lead dwindling down is due more to Cleveland playing at an .800 clip for a while than any choking the Sox were doing.

It is unfortunate that the 2005 Sox are the victims of the myth that they "got hot at the right time." Staying in first place all season isn't "getting hot at the right time." The 2000 Yankees went 87-74, went 3-14 in their final 17 games, backed into the playoffs and wound up winning the World Series 4-1. That's getting hot at the right time.

What I remember about 2005 is the that the most excited the media got during the season is when Cleveland came up close to them. Guys like Dave Kaplan and Eric Zorn were openly rooting for a collapse. And we're supposed to be the bitter, obsessed ones.
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJohn View Post
They didn't just get hot in the playoffs. They went 99-63 and were in first place every single day of the season. And the 15 game lead dwindling down is due more to Cleveland playing at an .800 clip for a while than any choking the Sox were doing.

It is unfortunate that the 2005 Sox are the victims of the myth that they "got hot at the right time." Staying in first place all season isn't "getting hot at the right time." The 2000 Yankees went 87-74, went 3-14 in their final 17 games, backed into the playoffs and wound up winning the World Series 4-1. That's getting hot at the right time.

What I remember about 2005 is the that the most excited the media got during the season is when Cleveland came up close to them. Guys like Dave Kaplan and Eric Zorn were openly rooting for a collapse. And we're supposed to be the bitter, obsessed ones.
Yes, it is sad that our own Sox fans buy into the revisionist history and won't accept that the 2005 team was so good. That's unbelievable really. They were outstanding from start to finish. Had, what, five separate 8-game winning streaks through the year? "Getting hot at the the right time" could be applied to a lot of teams, but not a team that went 110-64 on the season. It doesn't matter if you don't remember the names or it doesn't "feel" like that team was as good as the Big Red Machine. They were one of the best.

Last edited by Brian26; 09-30-2017 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 09-30-2017, 12:09 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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People look at players that had great career stats and listen to the bias of the media when determining who was the best. Unfortunately this includes some Sox fans. I dont even want to discuss unless a team went wire to wire, swept WS and now a days went at least 11-1 in post season.
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Old 09-30-2017, 12:11 PM
Falstaff Falstaff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Yes, it is sad that our own Sox fans buy into the revisionist history and won't accept that the 2005 team was so good. That's unbelievable really. They were outstanding from start to finish. Had, what, five separate 8-game winning streaks through the year? "Getting hot at the the right time" could be applied to a lot of teams, but not a team that went 110-64 on the season. It doesn't matter if you don't remember the names or it doesn't "feel" like that team was good at the Big Red Machine. They were one of the best.
Thank you. And from the moment El Duque did his magic against Boston, the White Sox seemed destined to win it all. That, one might say, is getting really hot at the right time.
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Old 09-30-2017, 12:50 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyJohn View Post
They didn't just get hot in the playoffs. They went 99-63 and were in first place every single day of the season. And the 15 game lead dwindling down is due more to Cleveland playing at an .800 clip for a while than any choking the Sox were doing.

It is unfortunate that the 2005 Sox are the victims of the myth that they "got hot at the right time." Staying in first place all season isn't "getting hot at the right time." The 2000 Yankees went 87-74, went 3-14 in their final 17 games, backed into the playoffs and wound up winning the World Series 4-1. That's getting hot at the right time.

What I remember about 2005 is the that the most excited the media got during the season is when Cleveland came up close to them. Guys like Dave Kaplan and Eric Zorn were openly rooting for a collapse. And we're supposed to be the bitter, obsessed ones.
We went 12-16 in August which also helped the Indians get back into the race.
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Old 09-30-2017, 01:22 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Yes, it is sad that our own Sox fans buy into the revisionist history and won't accept that the 2005 team was so good. That's unbelievable really. They were outstanding from start to finish. Had, what, five separate 8-game winning streaks through the year? "Getting hot at the the right time" could be applied to a lot of teams, but not a team that went 110-64 on the season. It doesn't matter if you don't remember the names or it doesn't "feel" like that team was good at the Big Red Machine. They were one of the best.
I agree with everything you say including that our 11-1 playoff record is the best of all time. I might have mis-understood the OPs post but what I'm having a hard time accepting is his contention that that makes the 2005 Sox as good as teams like the 27 Yankees, the Big Red Machine of the 70s and the A's of 72, 73 and 74 plus countless other teams. We might have swept those teams in the WS but most likely not. No matter what our record was in 2005, that team just doesn't stack up against the really great teams down through the years in MLB.
One would not be wrong in saying that the 2005 White Sox had one of the best records of all time but man for man were not one of the best teams of all time.

Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 09-30-2017 at 02:19 PM.
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