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  #1  
Old 08-05-2017, 10:06 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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I know it is a rebuild and the talent level is mostly AA/AAA. But fundamentals should be there regardless. Being a long-time White Sox fan stuck in the middle of Red Sox country, tonight was a tough pill to swallow. Misjudging a flyball in the 7th ending in a double-play, trying to stretch a single into a double in the 8th and getting picked off first in the 9th should result in the first base coach being sent to Charlotte for Baseball 101.
Red Sox announcers are killing us and they are right.
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2017, 10:41 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Draft picks, draft picks. I'm enjoying this season. Why? I have no expectations so nothing pisses me off.

2019, bring it!
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  #3  
Old 08-05-2017, 11:10 PM
soxnut67 soxnut67 is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Draft picks, draft picks. I'm enjoying this season. Why? I have no expectations so nothing pisses me off.

2019, bring it!
Exactly. Seen this before and I get it. No worries.
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2017, 11:14 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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I did find it humorous that right after Hawk starts pontificating about how RR is getting guys to play the game right, the base running blunders begin.

More and more I'm getting convinced that RR is not the man for the job when (if) these kids in the minors get called up and are actually good.

Sox need to find a guy with experience and a winning track record at that time. (And yes I know they are hard to find but contracts can be broken, managers have actually been traded before. If the Sox think a guy like that is the final piece they need to move heaven and Earth to get it done...like the Cubs did.)
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2017, 11:33 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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I agree. This is embarrassing. Losing because you're outmanned is one thing. However, there is no excuse for a professional team to make these kinds of baserunning mistakes.

And we'll be looking at this for at least another three years. Don't fool yourself: This team isn't going to be good in 2019. Even if a high percentage of the prospects make the majors, most will be rookies that season. They will struggle.
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  #6  
Old 08-05-2017, 11:38 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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And we'll be looking at this for at least another three years.
It shouldn't...there is no way this should be an Astros like situation with all that the Sox had to trade. The buildup should start next year. Oh not for more past their prime "stars" that this front office loves, but for pre arb players, etc. If they are going to sit back and wait for all prospects to blossom, this will take 10 years.
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:13 AM
shes shes is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
I agree. This is embarrassing. Losing because you're outmanned is one thing. However, there is no excuse for a professional team to make these kinds of baserunning mistakes.

And we'll be looking at this for at least another three years. Don't fool yourself: This team isn't going to be good in 2019. Even if a high percentage of the prospects make the majors, most will be rookies that season. They will struggle.
Lopez, Giolito, Moncada, and Fulmer won't be rookies in 2019 at the least. They may in fact be really good ML players by then. Rodon could be a legit ace. Abreu will still be good. Anderson will be much better. And while guys like Kopech, Eloy, Dunning, etc will be getting their first real cup of coffee that season, you have to figure at least some of the rookies will be impact guys. Blue chip prospects come up and perform right away just as often as they struggle. Not everyone will go through Moncada-like growing pains.

I don't believe the Sox will contend in 2019, but they should be competitive and probably make a run at .500. The awful baseball will spill into 2018, but I'd be stunned if this isn't at least a 75-80 win team in 2019.
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:19 AM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
I know it is a rebuild and the talent level is mostly AA/AAA. But fundamentals should be there regardless. Being a long-time White Sox fan stuck in the middle of Red Sox country, tonight was a tough pill to swallow. Misjudging a flyball in the 7th ending in a double-play, trying to stretch a single into a double in the 8th and getting picked off first in the 9th should result in the first base coach being sent to Charlotte for Baseball 101.
Red Sox announcers are killing us and they are right.
It is embarrassing to see silly mistakes, but how many guys playing besides Abreu, Anderson, and Moncada are going to be regulars, let alone around, in 2019 and 2020? Maybe Saladino and one of the catchers will be around in some capacity? Same with guys starting games this half and probably a lot of them next year. There is about a 99.5% chance Shields gets bought out, so he won't be around. Holland and Gonzalez aren't getting multi-year deals. They may have a chance next year as filler starters.
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Old 08-06-2017, 12:34 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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And we'll be looking at this for at least another three years. Don't fool yourself: This team isn't going to be good in 2019.
I've said all along I think it will be 2020 myself.
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:44 AM
slavko slavko is offline
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If you're looking to blame the manager for the base running, didn't he say four months ago that he wanted to challenge the opponent by taking chances? And we thought it was a good thing then?
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:57 AM
jamokes jamokes is offline
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Daryl Boston as a first base coach is a joke and has been for a long time. Over the last few years we have to lead the league in getting picked off first base. One of Kenny's boys.
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2017, 02:53 AM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
I've said all along I think it will be 2020 myself.
The timeline could depend on how much the Sox decide to invest in the vaunted 2018/2019 free agent class to supplement the rebuild. If they miss, or choose to sit out that group of FAs, then 2020 is more realistic.
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2017, 03:14 AM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Originally Posted by soxfanreggie View Post
It is embarrassing to see silly mistakes, but how many guys playing besides Abreu, Anderson, and Moncada are going to be regulars, let alone around, in 2019 and 2020? Maybe Saladino and one of the catchers will be around in some capacity? Same with guys starting games this half and probably a lot of them next year. There is about a 99.5% chance Shields gets bought out, so he won't be around. Holland and Gonzalez aren't getting multi-year deals. They may have a chance next year as filler starters.
Agreed. This entire roster is loaded with players that are lucky to be here occupying an MLB roster spot. Our DH tonight was DFA'd by a mediocre NL Central team. Our cleanup hitter tonight might be an "ok" backup catcher on a good team. Baserunning blunders are indeed frustrating but this is part of what bad baseball teams do. Most 90-100 loss teams aren't the most fundamentally sound bunch of guys. This roster is doing what it was designed to do right now and that's tank. This is unfortunately what a teardown looks like.
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2017, 05:26 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
I know it is a rebuild and the talent level is mostly AA/AAA. But fundamentals should be there regardless. Being a long-time White Sox fan stuck in the middle of Red Sox country, tonight was a tough pill to swallow. Misjudging a flyball in the 7th ending in a double-play, trying to stretch a single into a double in the 8th and getting picked off first in the 9th should result in the first base coach being sent to Charlotte for Baseball 101.
Red Sox announcers are killing us and they are right.
Embarrassing for who? Certainly not me as a fan.

You take the players aside and ask them what they were thinking in that moment. You remind them of the fundamentals: line drives through and watch the liners sink before advancing. In the other case, you're down three. Your run means nothing. Don't get picked off.

You tell them that mistakes happen b/c were human but mental mistakes cannot be tolerated. You tell them to think the game at-bats in advance. Capra took Leury Garcia aside and talked to him. That's what you want to see.

And who gives a tinker's cuss what the Red Sox announcers say?

As another poster supposed that Daryl Boston is an issue. Is there a case that can be proved that he's chiding these guys to grab a greater lead off of first in these situations?
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:27 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Foulke You View Post
Agreed. This entire roster is loaded with players that are lucky to be here occupying an MLB roster spot. Our DH tonight was DFA'd by a mediocre NL Central team. Our cleanup hitter tonight might be an "ok" backup catcher on a good team. Baserunning blunders are indeed frustrating but this is part of what bad baseball teams do. Most 90-100 loss teams aren't the most fundamentally sound bunch of guys. This roster is doing what it was designed to do right now and that's tank. This is unfortunately what a teardown looks like.
There is a lot of truth in your comment but I also have to say that the Sox have been bad, sometimes very bad with the fundamentals from as far back as Ozzie's last few seasons.

Either the staffs the Sox have had can't teach the fundamentals or the players they are getting / promoting to the big league roster can't absorb the teaching and are baseball-stupid.

Either way it's been a real issue for awhile, not just because the current roster is Triple A material at best.

All teams make mistakes over the course of a 162 game season, the best teams limit those times and give themselves more chances to actually win games.
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