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  #1  
Old 06-08-2015, 09:36 AM
GOGO WHITE SOX GOGO WHITE SOX is offline
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Default ventura and bunting

I don't know if this has been addressed but I wish some sportswriter would ask him why he doesnt sacrifice bunt when the situation calls for it. What was the turning point in the game yesterday? Sox leading 4-2, Eaton leads off with a double. Rather than have Cabrera try to bunt him to third with Abreu and La Roche coming up he has all 3 swing away and we dont score an insurance run. We never threatened after that. Further, he left JS in too long. Even I could see that he was being hit more and it was just a matter of time before the Tigers took the lead. This isnt the first time RV has ignored a sacrifice bunt. I wish I would have counted the number of times we have had runners on first and second with no one out and we has gone ahead and hit, quite often resulting in a double play and no score. He hired Coleman to help us become more proficient in stealing. What result? 18-14. RV doesn't put pressure on the defense, he is a passive person and his team plays passively and none of media ever challenges him. Why? This is the most talented team he has had and he criticizes the players without admitting his own shortcomings. Its up to the fans and media to do it for him. Hope he gets canned ASAP. I've given up on him.
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  #2  
Old 06-08-2015, 10:01 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Actually, we had our best hitters coming up and we had a chance to put the game away. You get a leadoff double with the heart of the order coming up...can't play for 1 run in that stage of the game.

Had we bunted, we lose 6-5.
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  #3  
Old 06-08-2015, 10:09 AM
Irishsox1 Irishsox1 is offline
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Ventura is a dud and he needs to go now. 3rd worst record in the American League last place in the central.

Until our GM Kenny Williams admits that the Robin hire was a knee jerk reaction to Ozzie, then either stop watching on a regular basis (like I did) or keep watching this garbage and punish yourself.
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Old 06-08-2015, 10:33 AM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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I don't think that Ventura was wrong in this situation. Cabrera was hitting left handed and, in attempting to get a hit, he could have at least hit something to the right side to push the runner to third. Instead Cabrera popped to the left side, wasting the at-bat. This was not bad strategy on Ventura's part; this was bad execution on Cabrera's part.

As far as leaving Shark in, I had no problem with that. The damage came in the sixth. Two outs, no runners on and all of a sudden there's a single sandwiched between two homers. This is on the pitcher; not the manager. A good starter should be able to get you through the seventh. In fact, he should have got you through the eighth. The Tiger starter did.

What we saw in the Tiger series was not a reflection on Ventura. What we saw is what we have been seeing for the first third of the season. A team with a lifeless offense that is lucky to score more than three runs in a game. An upward trend is not on the way.
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Old 06-08-2015, 10:49 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Bunting in that situation with your 2-3-4 hitters up is statistically ill-advised.
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Old 06-08-2015, 12:29 PM
Moses_Scurry Moses_Scurry is offline
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To echo the others, I'm perfectly fine with Melky not bunting there. The decreased bunting is one of the things I like about Ventura. Guillen and Manuel definitely would have called for the sacrifice there. Hell, they might have called for it in the first inning!
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Old 06-08-2015, 12:52 PM
XplodingScorbord XplodingScorbord is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
I don't think that Ventura was wrong in this situation. Cabrera was hitting left handed and, in attempting to get a hit, he could have at least hit something to the right side to push the runner to third. Instead Cabrera popped to the left side, wasting the at-bat. This was not bad strategy on Ventura's part; this was bad execution on Cabrera's part.

As far as leaving Shark in, I had no problem with that. The damage came in the sixth. Two outs, no runners on and all of a sudden there's a single sandwiched between two homers. This is on the pitcher; not the manager. A good starter should be able to get you through the seventh. In fact, he should have got you through the eighth. The Tiger starter did.

What we saw in the Tiger series was not a reflection on Ventura. What we saw is what we have been seeing for the first third of the season. A team with a lifeless offense that is lucky to score more than three runs in a game. An upward trend is not on the way.
Good post.
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Old 06-08-2015, 01:08 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moses_Scurry View Post
To echo the others, I'm perfectly fine with Melky not bunting there. The decreased bunting is one of the things I like about Ventura. Guillen and Manuel definitely would have called for the sacrifice there. Hell, they might have called for it in the first inning!
The way Melky is hitting, it wouldn't have hurt, plus a pitcher has a totally different mindset if we push across that one run.

I dislike that the Sox have decided (likely due to some post-Ozzie based overcorrection) to move away from a strategy that every major league staff uses with measurable success.
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Old 06-08-2015, 01:31 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Under normal circumstances I would agree that you let Melky hit in that situation. But Melky is really struggling (3 pop-ups yesterday show his swing is not right) and he has some ability as a bunter so it wouldn't have been a bad idea to have him sacrifice the runner over. But I disagree with having moved Melky back to the 2 spot so quickly after having Ramirez have a good game there. I would have kept Ramirez in the #2 for several days and let Melky hit #6 behind Garcia.
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Old 06-08-2015, 01:32 PM
johnny bench johnny bench is offline
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Heard Levine? Rongy? address this issue on Sunday. He said that he had recently observed bunting practice taking place before a recent game with 5 or 6 players, including Rodon. He said that he assumed that Rodon was there to prep for upcoming NL games.
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Old 06-08-2015, 01:45 PM
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There are many legitimate criticisms of Robin Ventura out there. Not bunting with Cabrera in the fifth inning yesterday is not among them.

It's worth noting that even if Cabrera had advanced Eaton to third, Abreu struck out anyway.
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Old 06-08-2015, 01:56 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
There are many legitimate criticisms of Robin Ventura out there. Not bunting with Cabrera in the fifth inning yesterday is not among them.

It's worth noting that even if Cabrera had advanced Eaton to third, Abreu struck out anyway.
You can't assume Abreu will strike out. The situation is different, runner on 3rd instead of 2nd.
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulwny View Post
You can't assume Abreu will strike out. The situation is different, runner on 3rd instead of 2nd.
Yes, I can assume that. The Sox routinely fail in easy RBI situations. That's why they are last in the league in runs. They do a terrific job of making outs as it is. They shouldn't be giving them away, especially in the fifth inning. I would have called for Ventura's head if he had bunted there. It would have been terrible managing.

Ventura's biggest mistake yesterday was leaving Samardzija in for the eighth.
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:16 PM
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The criticism here assumes the Sox would have scored the fifth run had Cabrera bunted Eaton over, and that assumption is no different or better than me making assumptions about the outcome of Abreu's at-bat.
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:17 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Yes, I can assume that. The Sox routinely fail in easy RBI situations. That's why they are last in the league in runs. They do a terrific job of making outs as it is. They shouldn't be giving them away, especially in the fifth inning. I would have called for Ventura's head if he had bunted there. It would have been terrible managing.

Ventura's biggest mistake yesterday was leaving Samardzija in for the eighth.
I never said Ventura should have called for a bunt. I also believe he shouldn't have called for a bunt.
I'm saying the situation is different for both the hitter and pitcher with a runner at third. You can't assume anything.
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