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  #16  
Old 08-02-2014, 10:32 PM
TDog TDog is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
He was the losing pitcher, how can they give him a hold? Saw that in the box score also, plus they gave the blown save to Petricka.
The hold is a stupid statistic. If you come into the game in what would be a save situation if you were to finish the game and leave with the lead still intact, you get a hold. Having never really respected the state enough to think about it, I was unaware you could be awarded both a hold and a loss for the same appearance. Of course, Petricka got the blown save. He came in with the lead and gave it up, regardless of who the runs were charged to. If you come in with the bases loaded, one out and a one-run lead, you get a save if you strike out the next two hitters. You get a blown save if you surrender a sacrifice fly or even if the tying run scores on a passed ball. Technically, that would be a "tough save" opportunity. An out instead of the double and Petricka probably returns for the ninth and earns a tough save.

With the tying run on second and two outs in that situation, most teams in that situation play shallower to cut off shallow singles to the outfield and to have a chance at cutting down the run at the plate on a ground ball. It depends on the hitter and the pitcher, but it's like playing the infield in, which sometimes you do even against big hitters. Petricka gave up the big hit that wasn't cheap. It wasn't as if he gave up a duck snort that dropped in to score two because the outfielder was playing back.

I was afraid when Abreu popped out with a runner on third and one out in the first, that the Sox would lose this game by one run. The fact that they lost it by two doesn't make the loss any less frustrating. The Twins, scored two of their first runs on double plays. Until Carroll left in line to get the win, that was half the Twins runs.

Carroll pitched a better game against the Twins tonight than Sale did Friday night. At least he pitched more innings, leaving fewer for the bullpen to cover, and allowed fewer runs. Considering how well the Twins have handled the Sox pitching this weekend, beginning with Sale, Carroll pitched a pretty good game. The Twins have scored against every pitcher who has started an inning in this series. Maybe they have seen enough of the Sox lately that they have a gauge on how to hit them. Maybe Fuld was holding them back and they are free to turn loose the offensive juggernaut.

Through seven, I liked the way the game was playing out. The Sox score four runs to take the lead on an inning set up by a sacrifice that wasn't botched by the defense. Eaton had a great game, getting the big hit against a lefty reliever. Beckham's double gave the Sox the lead and took the bat out of Abreu's hands, but Ramirez provided what felt like some breathing room.

After the Twins came back in the eight and piled on in the ninth, Perkins had perhaps his easiest save against the White Sox this year, throwing nothing but strikes. There was the obligatory hit surrendered to pinch-hitter Konerko, but it followed Perkins retiring Beckham and Abreu. Konerko now has five hits in six at bats against Perkins this year.

It felt like the Sox were one pitch away from taking this one with a second comeback in two night. It felt like the home run allowed by Webb made a big difference in the game. Webb seems to have so much potential. I hope his experiences this season make him better in the future.
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  #17  
Old 08-02-2014, 10:40 PM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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The most frustrating game I have ever been to because the team did so many good things only to lose. I have never seen a bullpen this bad.

People are mad at DeAza but that ball was hit extremely hard (like most everything was in the last two innings) and it was rising. Still a better outfielder would have had it but it was not an easy chance.

Adam Dunn hit the ball hard in seventh but otherwise he was clueless at the plate with runners on. His contract is almost done. Put him on the bench and keep him there.
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  #18  
Old 08-02-2014, 10:40 PM
TDog TDog is online now
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
Whoa there sailor. PK's run meant nothing. Alexei's run at the plate meant something. ...
Exactly. It's basic managing. You don't burn a pinch-runner on a meaningless run unless you have an injury. If Ramirez ties the game and it goes extra innings, you don't have Garcia to run for Konerko if he gets on as the winning run in the 11th. You have Garcia as your designated hitter.

If Webb pitches a scoreless ninth, Garcia comes in to pinch run as the tying run where he could steal second and get into scoring position or score on a double.
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  #19  
Old 08-02-2014, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Beli-sorry-o does it again with help from DeAza.
How much more do we have to see of these bums.
I know there is not a lot of love for Jordan Danks around here but he needs to be on the roster for late inning defense.
I thought I was the only one who thought of that nickname. He is as loatheable as Damaso Marte and Billy Koch were in their latest stages here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roylestillman View Post
Since he left the game without surrendering the go ahead run, he is credited with a hold even if he is the losing pitcher. What a crap stat that is.
How does that happen when runners he allowed on base scored after he was pulled? That does seem crazy.
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Originally Posted by tebman View Post
No PTC yet tonight -- I think it's Belisario fatigue.

Here's tonight's Totally Biased Game Recap, if you'd like to share in my grumbling.

You were who I thought of immediately when Beli-sorry-o gave it up tonight. I'm sorry, Tebman! You don't have many more chances either...Just 8 more Saturdays left in the season.
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  #20  
Old 08-02-2014, 11:14 PM
StillMissOzzie StillMissOzzie is offline
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Originally Posted by chisoxfanatic View Post
I thought I was the only one who thought of that nickname. He is as loatheable as Damaso Marte and Billy Koch were in their latest stages here.
Old timers here might remember Juan Agosto, and I know of at least two others that independently of each other, as well as myself, referred to him as Juan Disgust-o. Some nicknames are earned organically.

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  #21  
Old 08-02-2014, 11:16 PM
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Bellasario must leave. I've seen enough. DFA please.
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  #22  
Old 08-02-2014, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tebman View Post
No PTC yet tonight -- I think it's Belisario fatigue.

Here's tonight's Totally Biased Game Recap, if you'd like to share in my grumbling.

I think you gave De Aza too much of a pass there. He's just as much to blame for misplaying what should have been the third out in the eighth. No mention of Petricka either, but then again, he was put in the position of cleaning up Belisario's mess.
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  #23  
Old 08-03-2014, 12:54 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Saw lots of dumb baseball from section 161 tonight. Beckham penciled in as the No. 2 hitter. Belisario brought in to protect a slim lead in the eighth. De Aza's botched play. Eaton's base-running blunder.

It's to the point where I don't blame Belisario, De Aza and Beckham anymore. They've shown time after time after time what they are. It's the team's fault for putting them in the same positions to post the same results. As a fan yelled after Belisario blew the lead, "Ventura, what did you think was going to happen?" Exactly.

And, likewise, I've seen this team allowed to be managed into the ground by Ventura for the past three years. He is what he is -- namely, a bad manager. I blame Hahn for allowing Ventura to remain in position to inflict damage to the team.

To summarize, I now blame Hahn.
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  #24  
Old 08-03-2014, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Saw lots of dumb baseball from section 161 tonight. Beckham penciled in as the No. 2 hitter. Belisario brought in to protect a slim lead in the eighth. De Aza's botched play. Eaton's base-running blunder.

It's to the point where I don't blame Belisario, De Aza and Beckham anymore. They've shown time after time after time what they are. It's the team's fault for putting them in the same positions to post the same results. As a fan yelled after Belisario blew the lead, "Ventura, what did you think was going to happen?" Exactly.

And, likewise, I've seen this team allowed to be managed into the ground by Ventura for the past three years. He is what he is -- namely, a bad manager. I blame Hahn for allowing Ventura to remain in position to inflict damage to the team.

To summarize, I now blame Hahn.
Who would you have sent out to pitch the eighth?
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  #25  
Old 08-03-2014, 06:25 AM
cub killer cub killer is offline
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Oh boy, Belisario should just stick to creating sci-fi time travel series...
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  #26  
Old 08-03-2014, 06:42 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post

To summarize, I now blame Hahn.

If you want to blame Hahn for getting Belisario thats fine. If you are blaming him for anything regarding Ventura, you are looking way too low on the hierarchy chain for that kind of decision.
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  #27  
Old 08-03-2014, 07:36 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I can't blame Ventura for this loss- if Belisario does his job (along with last Sunday's melt down)- the Sox would be looking at winning 8 of their last 9-

I'd prefer Sierra in the 2 slot starting over Viciedo- but Beckham went 2/5- so he was OK for last night-

Webb continues to be a frustrating work in process-

Dunn barely missed getting a 3 run HR-

We are a classic .500 team due to talent and roster construction- not a single reliever the manager can count on- one or two of them will completely crap the bed each week- keeping this team from getting on any kind of run.

Lindstrom, Putnam and A. Garcia will be welcome additions-
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  #28  
Old 08-03-2014, 07:59 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
I think you gave De Aza too much of a pass there. He's just as much to blame for misplaying what should have been the third out in the eighth. No mention of Petricka either, but then again, he was put in the position of cleaning up Belisario's mess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I can't blame Ventura for this loss- if Belisario does his job (along with last Sunday's melt down)- the Sox would be looking at winning 8 of their last 9-

I'd prefer Sierra in the 2 slot starting over Viciedo- but Beckham went 2/5- so he was OK for last night-

Webb continues to be a frustrating work in process-

Dunn barely missed getting a 3 run HR-

We are a classic .500 team due to talent and roster construction- not a single reliever the manager can count on- one or two of them will completely crap the bed each week- keeping this team from getting on any kind of run.

Lindstrom, Putnam and A. Garcia will be welcome additions-
Avasail had a couple hits in his rehab at AAA last night. Maybe he's close. While Avasail is not a great OF he's better than DeAza.

You're right about the BP. It would be one thing too if it was JUST that the BP has getting hit hard. No, they give free passes. And those free passes - walks, hit batsmen - seem to score. Then the defense flops at inopportune times. Last night was a prime example - hit batter, miscue in LF and the runs scored.
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Last edited by DrCrawdad; 08-03-2014 at 08:12 AM.
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  #29  
Old 08-03-2014, 08:25 AM
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I went to the game last night and it was really an exciting game. I figured something out at the game. I was shocked that the Angels wouldn't take Dunn, Beckham, DeAza and Viciedo for Mike Trout in a trade. I'm sure if the White Sox had included Belisario in the package, the trade might have gotten done. Also, I heard that help is on the way. The White Sox just promoted Jared Mitchell to AAA. They're counting on him as a September call up to replace DeAza.
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  #30  
Old 08-03-2014, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Who would you have sent out to pitch the eighth?
The Neal Cotts or Cliff Politte of 2005 would have been delightful. The problem is that this is 2014 and you play what you have. And what you have in the 'pen is Thing I through Thing V.
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