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  #1  
Old 08-02-2014, 03:24 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Default For the love of God, please no more Beckham batting second

Last night's lineup was silly with Beckham back in the second spot for no apparent reason. Ramirez or Gillaspie should be there.

It's not like the team's second spot is one of sacrifice that is traditional for the No. 2 spot. Eaton is not a big base stealer so it's not necessary for the No. 2 hitter to take a lot of pitches. And you don't want to take the bat out of Abreu's hands so you don't want the No. 2 hitter to sacrifice bunt either. The job of this team's No. 2 hitter is strictly to get on base for Abreu. That's why Ramirez or Gillaspie should be batting No. 2. It's hard to believe that a Major League manager would bat Beckham No. 2, but that's Ventura for you.
  #2  
Old 08-02-2014, 03:47 PM
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2014, 03:52 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Last night's lineup was silly with Beckham back in the second spot for no apparent reason. Ramirez or Gillaspie should be there.

It's not like the team's second spot is one of sacrifice that is traditional for the No. 2 spot. Eaton is not a big base stealer so it's not necessary for the No. 2 hitter to take a lot of pitches. And you don't want to take the bat out of Abreu's hands so you don't want the No. 2 hitter to sacrifice bunt either. The job of this team's No. 2 hitter is strictly to get on base for Abreu. That's why Ramirez or Gillaspie should be batting No. 2. It's hard to believe that a Major League manager would bat Beckham No. 2, but that's Ventura for you.
Apparently Ventura would rather have a guy getting on base 26% of the time than bat lefties consecutively. Gillaspie should be batting 2nd or 5th in this lineup, but there is typically a lefty at 1 and 4, so he bats him sixth. Ridiculous in this lineup of stinkers to have your second best hitter batting sixth.
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2014, 04:14 PM
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:29 PM
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*moves quietly out of range in case BainesHOF's head explodes*
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  #6  
Old 08-02-2014, 04:46 PM
fram40 fram40 is offline
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*moves quietly out of range in case BainesHOF's head explodes*
It's not just BainesHOF. It seems to be quite a few Sox fans - including me. I have bailed on the idea of Ventura as manager.

Batting Beckham second is just one reason. He just shouldn't be batting second.
  #7  
Old 08-02-2014, 05:00 PM
PaleHoser PaleHoser is offline
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I suppose the logic is that he'll get better pitches to hit with Abreu hitting behind him. What's being overlooked is that Beckham can't seem to do anything with them.
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  #8  
Old 08-02-2014, 05:02 PM
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ChiSoxGal85 ChiSoxGal85 is offline
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I agree - put Gillapsie or Alexei 2nd. And I'd prefer Gillapsie, who has been a consistent contact hitter this season. IMHO, there's way too much weight placed on the lefty-right stuff.
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Old 08-02-2014, 05:39 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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What's to expect from a dumb ass manager.

It took this clown 3 plus months to finally permanately stick his best hitter in the 3 hole.

Yesterday blew not challenging a sure botched umpire call at 2B when the Twins SS dropped the ball on the transfer.
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Old 08-02-2014, 06:28 PM
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Ramirez had grounded into some DPs hitting in the 2 hole, so that's probably why he was moved down in the lineup. Not saying Beckham belongs there: He doesn't. But Ramirez is more suited to hit sixth than second.
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Old 08-02-2014, 06:49 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I'd like to see Sierra get a shot at the 2 hole- very surprised he's not starting tonight-
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  #12  
Old 08-02-2014, 06:56 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
Apparently Ventura would rather have a guy getting on base 26% of the time than bat lefties consecutively. Gillaspie should be batting 2nd or 5th in this lineup, but there is typically a lefty at 1 and 4, so he bats him sixth. Ridiculous in this lineup of stinkers to have your second best hitter batting sixth.
On-base percentage, as opposed to batting average, isn't really relevant to a No. 2 hitter hitting ahead of Abreu. A pitcher would have to have acute control problems not to throw strikes with Abreu on deck. Joey Cora, who hit No. 2 ahead of Frank Thomas and, with the Mariners, ahead of Ken Griffey Jr. (although he led off for the Mariners as well), got quite a few walks but also had a tiny strike zone.

Beckham this season has been the best No. 2 hitter the White Sox have had. He was hitting No. 2 when he was hitting well. Semien was leading the majors in strikeouts with an abysmal batting average when he ending his tenure as an everyday player. The only thing he was doing right in the No. 2 role (aside from a few big hits late in games) was see a lot of pitches. Ramirez, who is hitting about .280 all over the lineup is hitting about .280 as a No. 2 hitter. His offensive game isn't about looking at a lot of pitches. He also is tied for Viciedo for the team lead in grounding into double plays. Overall, he has grounded into 17 double plays. Konerko hasn't grounded into more than 17 double plays for a season since 2007. Ramirez has grounded into six double plays in the 14 games he has started batting second this year.

Gillaspie looks like he could be a strong No. 2 hitter, and I have been a Gillaspie fan since before the White Sox traded for him, but he is a left-handed hitter vulnerable to left-handed pitching, especially left-handed relievers. He is hitting better this year against left-handed pitching, but he would be hitting nearly .360 if he hit exclusively against righties. When you build a lineup, one of the considerations is how the opposing team will attack it. Managers alternate right- and left-handed hitters to force opposing managers into bullpen management choices. If you are bringing in a lefty to get out of a jam with Eaton coming up, and I don't think he has a hit against a southpaw reliever all season, you are doing the other manager a favor by hitting Gillaspie behind him. Especially when you have Adam Dunn, in the lineup or on the bench, your objective is to force the other manager to burn through his lefty relievers. That is one of the reasons Gillaspie has been hitting third so much of the season. Gillaspie doesn't get on base as much as Abreu because pitchers pitch around Abreu so much. Abreu has been intentionally walked 11 times this season, the last two times after Ramirez hits. There is no way to tell how many times Abreu was semi-intentionally walked.

If Gillaspie approached being the same hitter against lefties, he would be an ideal No. 2 hitter, especially pulling the ball behind Eaton when he gets on. You need a right-handed hitter in that role, and the only time the Sox have had consistent success in the No. 2 position in the lineup this season is with Beckham there.
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Old 08-02-2014, 07:33 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Alexei was fine at #2. Not as good as Gillaspie, but better than most alternatives.
Somehow, though, Ventura manages to bat his worst hitter 2nd.
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Old 08-02-2014, 08:05 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
On-base percentage, as opposed to batting average, isn't really relevant to a No. 2 hitter hitting ahead of Abreu.
I would have to disagree. Hitting in front of Abreu, OBP is far and away the most important thing. What good is 0 for 5 in front of Abreu?!? We'd be better off with Dunn batting second rather than Beckham.
  #15  
Old 08-02-2014, 08:18 PM
WhiteSoxOnly WhiteSoxOnly is online now
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Quote:
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Alexei was fine at #2. Not as good as Gillaspie, but better than most alternatives.
Somehow, though, Ventura manages to bat his worst hitter 2nd.
Who does Robin think he is, Bevington ?
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