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  #16  
Old 07-27-2014, 06:20 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Yup. I want so bad to like Dayan for what he is, but those Carlos Lee type ABs from him are maddening. I am struggling to keep finding excuses not to trade him for a sure pen arm.
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2014, 06:21 PM
Crestani Crestani is offline
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Message to Tank....Keep swing as hard as you can because you just might hit something...!!!

Why in the hell don't they bench him until he realizes he just needs contact in that situation..??
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  #18  
Old 07-27-2014, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
I loved Ventura as a player. As a manager so far, he's had his troubles.

I didn't watch the entire game today, but one thing I saw that bothered me was Ventura's response, or lack of, during the rubber band incident.

The umps went out to talk to Belisario for a couple of minutes. Robin just stood there in the dugout and didn't do anything. I'm not sure how much of a command of the English language Belisario has. Nieto went out to the mound as well, presumably to help. The entire time, Ventura stood in the dugout while the umps were dressing down Belisario. Finally Belisario came walking over to the dugout to ask for help, which was to cut off the rubber band. Ventura should have been out there at the mound counseling his guy while the ump was there. I just don't understand how he let that happen. If you know you reliever might be shaken up by something like that, you go out and calm the situation down. That was just a terrible indictment of Robin, and nobody mentioned it. Can't believe he wouldn't run out there and at least want to know what was going on. Sometimes he comes off like a spectator in the Club Level and not the manager. Ozzie was also not perfect, but you can bet your ass Ozzie would have run out there to check on the situation.
If Robin went out there, it might have been considered a Mound Visit.
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  #19  
Old 07-27-2014, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Crestani View Post
Message to Tank....Keep swing as hard as you can because you just might hit something...!!!

Why in the hell don't they bench him until he realizes he just needs contact in that situation..??
You have to ask yourself is it the coaching or is the guy so hard headed he can't figure out situational hitting at the Major League level. I think it's both because it has been happening for several years now. DeAza is the other low IQ in all baseball fundementals that's got to go.
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  #20  
Old 07-27-2014, 06:42 PM
Hartman Hartman is offline
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We know the bullpen sucks. That's why the offense bails the team out in the 9th when the bases are loaded with 1 out. DeAza was out before he stepped into the box. All we needed was a damn fly ball. Our players are not playing smart or disciplined baseball.
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  #21  
Old 07-27-2014, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by RCWHITESOX View Post
You have to ask yourself is it the coaching or is the guy so hard headed he can't figure out situational hitting at the Major League level. I think it's both because it has been happening for several years now. DeAza is the other low IQ in all baseball fundementals that's got to go.
It's the players. They already tried firing the hitting coach after last year. Viciedo showed brief signs of improvement early this season, but he has since regressed to his old ways.

As for De Aza, well, remember he was a waiver pickup. The Sox are lucky they've gotten as much mileage out of him as they have. Next year, he'll be making mental mistakes for some other team, and people will realize his foibles are not the fault of the Sox coaching staff. He's just a mediocre player who should be a fourth outfielder, but he's been miscast as an everyday guy the past few years with the Sox.

Weaknesses eventually get exposed when a player is given more responsibility than he can reasonably be expected to handle.
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  #22  
Old 07-27-2014, 07:43 PM
captain54 captain54 is offline
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Very disappointing to see another winnable game given away. Hopefully DeAza and Viciedo have earned ticket elsewhere after that performance today.

It's not even a question of the Sox in the hunt for a post season spot. This team as constructed, is not capable of getting there. As a fan, the frustration of seeing anything positive negated by poor to mediocre performances from poor to mediocre players is maddening
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  #23  
Old 07-27-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
He's just a mediocre player who should be a fourth outfielder, but he's been miscast as an everyday guy the past few years with the Sox.

Weaknesses eventually get exposed when a player is given more responsibility than he can reasonably be expected to handle.
I think we have seen a steady diet of that in the post 2005 era of the Chicago White Sox. I can't figure out if it's a matter of poor talent evaluation or budgetary restrictions
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  #24  
Old 07-27-2014, 08:00 PM
Wedema Wedema is offline
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Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
That was it. Unless Flowers can suddenly play the outfield, Ventura couldn't have sent up anyone else.

Garcia and Sierra were in the game as pinch runners and one of them could have played the outfield and Flowers could have went to first base if he pinch hit for De Aza and tied the game up.
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  #25  
Old 07-27-2014, 08:03 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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And this is why De Aza and Beckham are totally untradeable. They are just non-tender candidates. No one wants them, they suck, atleast we know that now and can just be done with these total bums.
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  #26  
Old 07-27-2014, 08:11 PM
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And this is why De Aza and Beckham are totally untradeable. They are just non-tender candidates. No one wants them, they suck, atleast we know that now and can just be done with these total bums.
The only thing holding Viciedo out of this group is his age. But Beckham may have a couple years left in baseball as a utility infielder, Viciedo wont have his defensive skills or the utility factor to keep him around like that.
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  #27  
Old 07-27-2014, 08:23 PM
StillMissOzzie StillMissOzzie is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Why is a .083 hitter against lefties hitting in the 9th inning down a run?
Ventura just keeps making these rookie mistakes.
For someone who loves the lefty vs. lefty, righty vs. righty matchups when it comes to who he trots to the mound, Ventura has these noggin-scratchers when it comes to offense sometimes.

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  #28  
Old 07-27-2014, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
If Robin went out there, it might have been considered a Mound Visit.
All he has to do is ask the umpire what's going on and not to charge him with a visit if he doesn't talk to his pitcher. He could have come out of the dugout and walked to the line to acknowledge what was happening.
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  #29  
Old 07-27-2014, 10:23 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Why is a .083 hitter against lefties hitting in the 9th inning down a run?
Ventura just keeps making these rookie mistakes.
Ventura didn't have anyone left to pinch-hit except for Flowers. Garcia and Sierra had gone in to run. Flowers had gone 1-for-6 with 1 single, 1 walk and 3 strikeouts against Perkins lifetime. The single came in a game about a month ago, but Flowers always has had a hard time making contact against Perkins. In two April games this season, Flowers was pulled for a pinch hitter, once for Viciedo and once for Konerko. Flowers was actually hitting well at the time.

I don't think it was a mistake not to pinch-hit Flowers. De Aza had two hits in seven at bats against Perkins but only one strikeout. With the tying run on third and one out, it wasn't just a matter of getting a hit, but putting the ball in play. De Aza's history, however brief, against Perkins was that he put the ball in play against him in seven appearances (including a sacrifice bunt) and had struck out once. Flowers' history was that he had put the ball in play three times in seven appearances, walking once with no one on base in April 2013. The sample size is small, but De Aza has always made better contact against Perkins. If Flowers grounds out, the play goes to the plate, and there is a better chance of getting him at first in a double play.

I don't think pinch-hitting Flowers would have promised any better result than leaving De Aza in to pinch-hit, and I don't think saving a hitter to hit for De Aza would have helped. Without sending in Garcia to run you probably don't have a runner on third and none out, certainly not with the fastest player on the team representing the tying run at third. You pretty much have to run for Konerko, whose hit sent Garcia to third. Maybe Rienzo should have gone in to run for Konerko, leaving Sierra available to pinch-hit for De Aza. Sierra has less of a history, having faced Perkins twice without a hit, striking out once.

It was frustrating to lose today, especially after taking the lead, especially with the tying run on third and none out. But I can't blame the manager. If Carroll can only go six, Belisario is going to have to come through, and he has been pitching very well in non-closing situations. If Guerra has the score tied with two outs and two runners in scoring position, he has to be able to get the third out. It was two managerial moves that put runners on first and third with none out. The key play in the ninth was striking out Viciedo, who had two pinch hits against Perkins earlier in the year. This time he failed. Konerko has pinch-hit five times against Perkins this year and has four hits, but the day he pinch-hit for Flowers, he grounded out for the last out in a 10-9 loss with Viciedo on third. Konerko this year is hitting .800 against Perkins.

I think Flowers would have hit for De Aza had there been two outs, when a strikeout is the same as a flyout, when beating the relay to first to avoid the double play is irrelevant.

But if you want to see Danks and Ramirez traded by the deadline, it shouldn't make any difference.
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  #30  
Old 07-27-2014, 11:03 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
We take the lead and promptly give it away, anyone know how many late inning leads we have blown this year?
Did anyone really expect DeAza or Beckham to get a hit with the bags loaded in the 9th? Tank tanked also with first and third with no outs.
The 3 guys you mention there in Beckham, Viciedo, and DeAza are three guys Hahn just couldn't resist to bring back. I was pissed when the decision was made to bring them back knowing well that they had burned every opportunity already handed to them. $11.5 - $12 million combined in the 3 of them. Easily could have used that money to get one quality FA and replace the other 2 spots with minor league players.

They basically have burned an entire season finding out that all 3 guys still suck.
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