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View Poll Results: Would you trade rosters with the Cubs
Yes 12 14.63%
No 67 81.71%
Only if three bags of Churros is tossed in the deal 3 3.66%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 07-16-2014, 10:32 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
Alexei Ramirez? Connor Gillespie? Remember these two guys?

In the mid to late 90's I remember the Cubbies system was stocked with can't miss prospects. I remember hearing Dave Kaplan interviewing Bobby Hill. Kaplan was so sure, boasted and mocked the Sox for not signing Bobby Hill and for how poorly the Sox system was compared to the Cubbies. Kappa went on and on about Dave Kelton, He Sop Choi, Francis Beltran and others. The Cubbies were stockpiled with prospects at all these positions. Poor pitiful Sox. Good that Hill missed the Sox trainwreck for the dynasty bound Cubbies.

But there I go taking your bait. Here I'll give you what you want...

Theos is a god. The Cubbies are the greatest team in MLB. Their farm system is the best in the history of MLB. Damn to hell any Sox fan who does not genuflect towards all things Cubbie.
The man gives a reasoned, thorough analysis of why he feels it's a close call and gets this post in response. Why not respond to his position point-by-point, including comments on specific players, before just lashing out with this? My guess is because you don't really know much about each of those players. If I am wrong, please correct me.
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  #62  
Old 07-16-2014, 10:34 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Why do any of us have to give a **** about Theo and his best in the history of baseball farm system? Why do we have to entertain the thought of trading rosters even if they are a first place team and we are in last? I made a conscious decision at the age of 6 1/2 to go with the Sox, I don't want to trade and become the Cubs. Not under any circumstances. There have been lots of seismic changes in the country since my father took a job in Chicago in 1953. Chicago and Illinois are no longer the big dogs they once were economically. I remember back in 1967, when times were much better, the Sox fighting for a pennant and still many suggested it was time to move the team. There is no guarantee that Chicago will always be a 2 team MLB city. If and when the day comes that the Cubs have Chicagoland all to themselves then maybe those of us still around can become real Cub fans instead of wannabes.
Well, you seem to have completely missed the point of the thread.
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  #63  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:07 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Well, you seem to have completely missed the point of the thread.
What is the point of this thread?

* To convince the teams a swap should happen?
* To highlight that the Cubbies have a system loaded w prospects?
* Brow beat those who post anything less than reverential about Cubbie prospects?
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  #64  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:24 AM
Moses_Scurry Moses_Scurry is online now
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I think the better question is whether or not you'd be willing to go through going on four consecutive nightmare seasons like cub fans have to get the system to their level. It's kind of stupid comparing the rebuilds when the cubs essentially have a three year head start. I like our current team+system more than the cub team+system at this point in their rebuild.
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  #65  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:24 AM
jonred jonred is offline
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To be fully transparent I'm a Cubs fan, but I enjoy a good baseball discussion--especially with both teams not going anywhere this year. This is really a toss up in my book, the Sox have two franchise players already producing at the big league level, while the Cubs have the greater positional depth down on the farm. The Sox are trying to re-build on the fly while the Cubs decided to strip the team down to the foundation. I wouldn't be surprised to see both strategies work and hopefully set our city up for regular playoff baseball.

Baseball America likes to project out lineups 3 years in advance, so using that timeframe, I tried to rank our top 20 players. It's one fan's opinion, but I'd welcome thoughts.

1. J. Arbeu - Sox
2. K. Bryant - Cubs
3. C. Sale - Sox
4. A. Rusell - Cubs
5. J. Baez - Cubs
6. C. Rodon - Sox
7. A. Rizzo - Cubs
8. J. Quintana - Sox
9. A. Garcia - Sox
10. S. Castro - Cubs
11. J. Soler - Cubs
12. A. Alcantara - Cubs
13. A. Almora - Cubs
14. A. Eaton - Sox
15. J. Arieta - Cubs
16. T. Anderson - Sox
17. K. Schwarber - Cubs
18. CJ Edwards - Cubs
19. A. Vizcaino - Cubs
20. P. Johnson - Cubs

The Sox clearly have the pitching strength with the best 1-2-3 in town, while the Cubs have the hitting depth. It should make for an interesting next 5 years (and hopefully much better than the play in town right now)...
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  #66  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:31 AM
jamokes jamokes is offline
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I voted for the switch of rosters. Hoping it would include the front office. Sorry I don't trust or like Kenny Williams and anyone involved with him and his ego. Our scouts are out to lunch. But I do like Sale and Abreu!!
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  #67  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Moses_Scurry View Post
I think the better question is whether or not you'd be willing to go through going on four consecutive nightmare seasons like cub fans have to get the system to their level. It's kind of stupid comparing the rebuilds when the cubs essentially have a three year head start. I like our current team+system more than the cub team+system at this point in their rebuild.
Excellent point and I agree wholeheartedly.
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  #68  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:51 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Not one person in this thread has said the Cubs' farm system sucks.
.....and not one person in this thread has said the Sox are inferior in every way to the Cubs, the Cubs farm system is the best in history, or that everybody else in baseball should give up in the face of the Cubs farm system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
It just speaks to what I said in the Samardzija thread over in Talking Baseball. We have some Sox fans who are real self-loathing. For whatever reason, they buy into the media hype that the Sox are inferior in every way to our North Side counterparts, and that everybody else in baseball should just ****ing give up in the face of this "well-stocked" Cubbie farm system.

It's worth noting that the question in this thread is not "Would you trade farm systems with the Cubs?" It is "Would you trade rosters with the Cubs?"

The Sox' 25-man is clearly superior. That's not even a debate. And I would argue the 40-man is superior as well. Remember, Baez, Bryant, Russell, Almora and all the other anointed ones are not on the Cubs' 40-man, while Josh Vitters, Brett Jackson and the great Zac Rosscup are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
Alexei Ramirez? Connor Gillespie? Remember these two guys?

In the mid to late 90's I remember the Cubbies system was stocked with can't miss prospects. I remember hearing Dave Kaplan interviewing Bobby Hill. Kaplan was so sure, boasted and mocked the Sox for not signing Bobby Hill and for how poorly the Sox system was compared to the Cubbies. Kappa went on and on about Dave Kelton, He Sop Choi, Francis Beltran and others. The Cubbies were stockpiled with prospects at all these positions. Poor pitiful Sox. Good that Hill missed the Sox trainwreck for the dynasty bound Cubbies.

But there I go taking your bait. Here I'll give you what you want...

Theos is a god. The Cubbies are the greatest team in MLB. Their farm system is the best in the history of MLB. Damn to hell any Sox fan who does not genuflect towards all things Cubbie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Why do any of us have to give a **** about Theo and his best in the history of baseball farm system? Why do we have to entertain the thought of trading rosters even if they are a first place team and we are in last? I made a conscious decision at the age of 6 1/2 to go with the Sox, I don't want to trade and become the Cubs. Not under any circumstances. There have been lots of seismic changes in the country since my father took a job in Chicago in 1953. Chicago and Illinois are no longer the big dogs they once were economically. I remember back in 1967, when times were much better, the Sox fighting for a pennant and still many suggested it was time to move the team. There is no guarantee that Chicago will always be a 2 team MLB city. If and when the day comes that the Cubs have Chicagoland all to themselves then maybe those of us still around can become real Cub fans instead of wannabes.
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  #69  
Old 07-16-2014, 12:01 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Not really. Most of the Sox' championship team was acquired through trades and free agency.

Basically, you had Buehrle, Crede and Rowand. When the Sox farm system was top-rated in 2001, Buehrle was already the ace of the Sox staff.

They had the prospects they needed to get Garcia, sure, but it wasn't like that championship team was built on the backbone of a strong farm system.

Dye, Pierzynski, Iguchi, El Duque, Hermanson, Politte, those were all astute free agent signings.

Contreras, Garland, Pods and Vizcaino were all acquired in deals that involved veteran players.

The farm system really played a smaller role in the building of that team. Two position players, and some other dudes who were swapped to get Freddy in here.
The comment was that the Sox having the best rated farm system circa 2000 got us nothing. That's not true. You can split hairs all you want about whether Buehrle was really part of that good farm system because he was already on the Sox staff in 2001 or what percentage of the home grown guys led us to the title vs. the FA pickups. The point is that some of the key players from 2005 were part of that Sox farm system that was highly rated and it's misleading to say that having such players got us nowhere.

Garland was acquired when he was still a prospect. Whoever said that we can only count players that were drafted by the Sox? Again, splitting hairs in an attempt to fend off any assertions that the Sox good farm system mattered one iota.

Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Crede, Rowand. They didn't do it alone. But nobody said they did and I wonder how far we would have gone in 2005 if we had none of those guys.
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  #70  
Old 07-16-2014, 12:40 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
What is the point of this thread?

* To convince the teams a swap should happen?
* To highlight that the Cubbies have a system loaded w prospects?
* Brow beat those who post anything less than reverential about Cubbie prospects?
Sigh.
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  #71  
Old 07-16-2014, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Or perhaps some of us who follow all of the majors, including teams' minor league prospects down to low-A in some instances (thank you, enormously deep dynasty league roto ball), think that once one factors in the entirety of the minor league systems, the question becomes closer to a toss-up.

Is it impossible to have an objective analysis? I understand many may disagree with mine, but mine has nothing to do with being a self-loathing Sox fan.
As I've said before, when a young player joins the Sox and does well in a small sample size, this fan base expects it to not last.

Meanwhile, we'll shovel praise on prospects from other teams who have accomplished little or nothing. Seriously, some people liked the Mike Olt acquisition for the Cubs. Why? When I ridiculed Olt recently, I was tsk-tsked for speaking with hindsight, so I had to use the search function to find the thread where I criticized the acquisition when it was made.

I don't know that there is a more self-loathing fan base in the country than White Sox fans. Perhaps it's because we've spent most of our lives hearing people heap praise on the Cubs and throw feces at the Sox.

Maybe it's just because I'm not a prospect guy. Odds are very high that more than one of these can't-miss Cubs guys will bust. This is about the fourth or fifth time in my life I've gone through a period of constant media hyping about a wave of Cubs youngsters who will supposedly lead the team to the promised land. I don't buy it. I've heard it all before.

Would I trade Sale and Quintana for 6 of the top 30 prospects in baseball? Not in a million ****ing years. I wouldn't trade Sale for all six of them, let alone include Quintana.

I'll take the established No. 1, three-time All-Star left-handed starter who is cost-controlled with a team-friendly contract.
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  #72  
Old 07-16-2014, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jonred View Post
To be fully transparent I'm a Cubs fan, but I enjoy a good baseball discussion--especially with both teams not going anywhere this year. This is really a toss up in my book, the Sox have two franchise players already producing at the big league level, while the Cubs have the greater positional depth down on the farm. The Sox are trying to re-build on the fly while the Cubs decided to strip the team down to the foundation. I wouldn't be surprised to see both strategies work and hopefully set our city up for regular playoff baseball.

Baseball America likes to project out lineups 3 years in advance, so using that timeframe, I tried to rank our top 20 players. It's one fan's opinion, but I'd welcome thoughts.

1. J. Arbeu - Sox
2. K. Bryant - Cubs
3. C. Sale - Sox
4. A. Rusell - Cubs
5. J. Baez - Cubs
6. C. Rodon - Sox
7. A. Rizzo - Cubs
8. J. Quintana - Sox
9. A. Garcia - Sox
10. S. Castro - Cubs
11. J. Soler - Cubs
12. A. Alcantara - Cubs
13. A. Almora - Cubs
14. A. Eaton - Sox
15. J. Arieta - Cubs
16. T. Anderson - Sox
17. K. Schwarber - Cubs
18. CJ Edwards - Cubs
19. A. Vizcaino - Cubs
20. P. Johnson - Cubs

The Sox clearly have the pitching strength with the best 1-2-3 in town, while the Cubs have the hitting depth. It should make for an interesting next 5 years (and hopefully much better than the play in town right now)...
Bolded should be No. 1 on your list.
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  #73  
Old 07-16-2014, 02:06 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Would I trade Sale and Quintana for 6 of the top 30 prospects in baseball? Not in a million ****ing years. I wouldn't trade Sale for all six of them, let alone include Quintana.

I'll take the established No. 1, three-time All-Star left-handed starter who is cost-controlled with a team-friendly contract.
But those aren't the questions being presented.
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  #74  
Old 07-16-2014, 02:06 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Bolded should be No. 1 on your list.
Agreed. Perennial Cy contender better than the rest until proven otherwise.
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  #75  
Old 07-16-2014, 02:10 PM
Moses_Scurry Moses_Scurry is online now
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Bolded should be No. 1 on your list.
With a ton of space between him and #2. Sale is a generational talent as long as he stays healthy.
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