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View Poll Results: Would you trade rosters with the Cubs
Yes 12 14.63%
No 67 81.71%
Only if three bags of Churros is tossed in the deal 3 3.66%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 07-15-2014, 11:19 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I have to say I think this group of Cubs prospects is legitimate- but I think it's a real weakness that it is 100% hitters and very little pitching.

For me the tie breaker is Matt Davidson- IF he continues the trend of improvement at AAA and becomes a solid 3rd baseman at age 23- I think I'll go with the Sox- they will have 3/5 of a starting rotation (Sale, Quintana, Rodon), and 4 solid young position players (Abreu, Eaton, A. Garcia and Davidson)- because of the blend of pitching and position players at the major league level- I would choose that group over Castro, Rizzo and the group of position player prospects at A/AA/AAA for the Cubbies.
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  #32  
Old 07-15-2014, 11:55 AM
jdm2662 jdm2662 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
It worked out better than, I suspect, you remember. Joe Crede and Jon Garland were part of that. So were the 3 players we traded for Freddie Garcia (Morse is still in the league; Olivo was until recently). We traded Matt Gurrier (still in league) for Marte. Jon Rauch had a long MLB career. Joe Borchard sucked, but Matt Thornton did not.
And go back a year or so and you can add Carlos Lee, Mark Buehrle and Aaron Rowand.
the Sox farm back then produced pretty well.
I guess if I look at it that way, it worked out pretty well. There were a decent amount of quality players. Just no true superstars compared to what came up in the early 90s. While Borchard was a major bust, flipping him for Matt Thornton did work out well.

I just have memories of Jeremy Reed being touted as a future HOF and Olivo being an all-star catcher for the next ten years. That probably clouts my memory more than anything.
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  #33  
Old 07-15-2014, 12:02 PM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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Enough has been said in the past how the Chicago Media favors the Cubs over the White Sox. I think the media has outdone themselves this time. The Chicago media coverage of the Cubs prospects is unlike anything I have seen in my lifetime. They're actually giving the prospects more coverage than the current Cubs Major League team. Every day you keep reading about the Cubs core of 4/5 prospects. Always remember what Bill Veeck said: "The future is now. Five year plans usually lead to new five year plans." I will say this much for the Cubs fans, they seem to be buying into this. They're still averaging over 32,000 a game. I read where they have sold close to 2.5 million tickets for the 2014 season. Not a bad number for a last place team.
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  #34  
Old 07-15-2014, 12:45 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by jdm2662 View Post
I guess if I look at it that way, it worked out pretty well. There were a decent amount of quality players. Just no true superstars compared to what came up in the early 90s. While Borchard was a major bust, flipping him for Matt Thornton did work out well.

I just have memories of Jeremy Reed being touted as a future HOF and Olivo being an all-star catcher for the next ten years. That probably clouts my memory more than anything.
That's part of it though - using the farm system. The prospects were at least good enough to attract others to giving us good players. Thus it was useful especially as the Sox were a team ready to win.
the batch right before (MB, Rowand, Lee) put us in a position to be ready to win.
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  #35  
Old 07-15-2014, 12:52 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by jdm2662 View Post
I guess if I look at it that way, it worked out pretty well. There were a decent amount of quality players. Just no true superstars compared to what came up in the early 90s. While Borchard was a major bust, flipping him for Matt Thornton did work out well.

I just have memories of Jeremy Reed being touted as a future HOF and Olivo being an all-star catcher for the next ten years. That probably clouts my memory more than anything.
Probably not a coincidence that the late 90s/early 00s Sox prospects were not taken at the top of the draft, where the likes of Frank, Robin, etc. were.

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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
That's part of it though - using the farm system. The prospects were at least good enough to attract others to giving us good players. Thus it was useful especially as the Sox were a team ready to win.
the batch right before (MB, Rowand, Lee) put us in a position to be ready to win.
Don't forget Magglio, too.
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  #36  
Old 07-15-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GoSox2K3 View Post
The Sox advantage is that they have Sale and Abreu at the very top of their list of talented players. That's what makes this a close call. They're top notch, already-established All-Star MLB talents. There are a few other good players too (Quintana, Eaton, A. Garcia). But, there are still a lot of holes around them all the way through the organization.

After that, the advantage swings to the Cubs. The Sox have at least made improvements to their farm system over the dreadful state it was in a few years ago. But, the Cubs are way ahead of us in building an organization full of talent. Not all of them will turn out, but they have enough top prospects stockpiled that odds are that enough of them will turn out to make the Cubs a formidable contender in a few years.

If we're focusing mostly on prospects, one addition that swings the argument in favor of the Sox is the drafting of Rodon. If we're going to pencil in Cubs prospects as future all-stars, then it's fair to say that he might be another ace to go along side Sale.

As far as the Cubs lacking pitching talent in the minors, there's no reason they can't flip some of their surplus of position player top prospects for quality pitching as these players get closer to MLB ready.

Even with Sale and Abreu, it wouldn't surprise me if the Cubs make it back to the playoffs before the Sox do.



Yeah, we won the World Series a few years later - that's how it worked out. I've seen this comment posted several times on WSI in recent weeks and it makes me wonder if people on this site are viewing 2005 in a total vacuum.

It's not like Kenny totally slapped together the 2005 team overnight. The main core of that championship team were products of the Sox farm system back when it was top rated in the late 90s through about 2001. Buehrle, Garland, Crede, Rowand were all part of that highly rated farm system. Garcia was acquired because we had quality prospects to trade to land him.

Building a solid farm system matters. Not every franchise is like Kansas City.
Not really. Most of the Sox' championship team was acquired through trades and free agency.

Basically, you had Buehrle, Crede and Rowand. When the Sox farm system was top-rated in 2001, Buehrle was already the ace of the Sox staff.

They had the prospects they needed to get Garcia, sure, but it wasn't like that championship team was built on the backbone of a strong farm system.

Dye, Pierzynski, Iguchi, El Duque, Hermanson, Politte, those were all astute free agent signings.

Contreras, Garland, Pods and Vizcaino were all acquired in deals that involved veteran players.

The farm system really played a smaller role in the building of that team. Two position players, and some other dudes who were swapped to get Freddy in here.
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  #37  
Old 07-15-2014, 01:10 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
Enough has been said in the past how the Chicago Media favors the Cubs over the White Sox. I think the media has outdone themselves this time. The Chicago media coverage of the Cubs prospects is unlike anything I have seen in my lifetime. They're actually giving the prospects more coverage than the current Cubs Major League team. Every day you keep reading about the Cubs core of 4/5 prospects. Always remember what Bill Veeck said: "The future is now. Five year plans usually lead to new five year plans." I will say this much for the Cubs fans, they seem to be buying into this. They're still averaging over 32,000 a game. I read where they have sold close to 2.5 million tickets for the 2014 season. Not a bad number for a last place team.
Season ticket holders who have had seats for 25+ years are not going to give up their tickets, and as long as Wrigley exists there will always be tourists who go to watch a game. Not that surprising that their ticket sales are still strong. They are one of the few teams that can get away with doing a complete rebuild while still maintaining strong ticket sales.
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  #38  
Old 07-15-2014, 01:15 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
Season ticket holders who have had seats for 25+ years are not going to give up their tickets, and as long as Wrigley exists there will always be tourists who go to watch a game. Not that surprising that their ticket sales are still strong. They are one of the few teams that can get away with doing a complete rebuild while still maintaining strong ticket sales.
Yah, attendance comes down to the business side. The Cubs are in a better neighborhood, are more of a national team, do better with Marketing etc.
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  #39  
Old 07-15-2014, 01:28 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I mean, that is not true at all. The middle reliever with an ERA over 4 last year and no career saves? GMAB.

It really becomes this: Rizzo-Castro-Russell-Bryant-Baez-Soler-Alcantara-Almora-Edwards-Kyle Schwarber and a really good 2014 draft of Arms

Vs.

Sale-Abreu-Eaton-Rodon-Montas-Danish-Avi Garcia-Quintana-Tim Anderson-Erik Johnson-Matt Davidson-Semien-Micah Johnson-and Spencer Adams... with more players that can be dealt for some value....

The White Sox have the 2 best current players on the list. The Cubs have more potential talent by far. The Sox have a Quality Ace, a prospective Ace and a solid number 3 SP in Quintana. The Cubs lack depth of pitching right now.

Sure, you can buy prospects never work out. But some of those guys on the Cubs are incredible prospects. Sometimes incredible prospects are named Mike Trout, and they do work out.

The biggest problem the Cubs face - The offense is going to be there, it might be one of the best 1-8 lineups they have ever had, but who pitches?

The biggest problem the Sox have - The farm is still really thin, which means the window of opportunity is shorter. Abreu is 27, so a guy like Montas might be best off being trade bait for a more age appropriate prospect.

Its a coin-flip. I say no, but its only because of Abreu Sale and Rodon. I think a good rotation can cover for a weak offense more often than the other way around.
That's how I feel about it. Having Abreu and Sale already as proven all-stars plus the very high ceiling of Rodon tips my vote to the Sox.

It's a close call, though. I hate the Cubs, but i'm not so blinded by my hate that I can't admit that they appear to be making a lot of right moves to make themselves a contending team in a few years.
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  #40  
Old 07-15-2014, 01:36 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
I agree with those that value major league talent as more important. Pretty much only 30% of prospects in the MLB top 100 become long time major league starters. I think the cubs will end up like the Rockies or like the Brewers (given up most runs in their division) with a good lineup, but weak staff. I know they have money, but they can't compete with the whole league to buy pitching. And as far as trading for SP talent with the top hitting prospects, there is still a chance the pitchers don't pan out or get injured.
My guess is that the Cubs will trade some of their surplus of position player talent for MLB-established pitching when they get closer to contending. I'm not talking about trading AA hitting prospects for AA pitching prospects here.

One thing I fully expect Ricketts to do once their current top prospects reach the majors is to open up his wallet and sign top tier free agents to the tune of a Tigers-level payroll. This is what might set their efforts apart from those of small to mid market teams like Kansas City, Milwaukee, and Colorado.
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  #41  
Old 07-15-2014, 01:55 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
My guess is that the Cubs will trade some of their surplus of position player talent for MLB-established pitching when they get closer to contending. I'm not talking about trading AA hitting prospects for AA pitching prospects here.

One thing I fully expect Ricketts to do once their current top prospects reach the majors is to open up his wallet and sign top tier free agents to the tune of a Tigers-level payroll. This is what might set their efforts apart from those of small to mid market teams like Kansas City, Milwaukee, and Colorado.
I agree with you that I think they will try to sign top tier free agent pitching, however its still easier said than done. Over half the league is in the same boat as the cubs, in that they are willing to spend big money for pitching. There are only so many top pitchers available. The next free agent pitching class pretty much only has Shields and Scherzer. Who knows who will be available in the years coming.
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  #42  
Old 07-15-2014, 03:19 PM
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FielderJones FielderJones is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Yah, attendance comes down to the business side. The Cubs are in a better neighborhood, are more of a national team, do better with Marketing etc.
The Cubs have been better at marketing for over 30 years, starting with the media behemoth that was the Tribune Company. But they've sold that park since the Wrigley ownership years.
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  #43  
Old 07-15-2014, 06:29 PM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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+1
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Threads like these actually have a redeeming factor in that they bring the Cubbie trolls and Dan Bernstein-wannabes to the surface.
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There are too many people incapable of being objective when any mention of the Cubs comes into play. I was one of these people until maybe 5 years ago. I got over it.
I am not a fan of discussions about hypothetical trades. This discussion is a an ugly merge of the dreaded hypothetical trade with "aren't the Cubbies dreamy..."

The Cubbie prospects, I frankly hope they do well for the true Cubs fans I know and love. However the constant boasting, all the hype on radio, TV, Internet and even here on a White Sox discussion site where you get pounced on by the usual suspects here well for the slightest word of skepticism - well spoils the good will I sincerely expressed.
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  #44  
Old 07-15-2014, 07:01 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Was the Sox farm system in 2000-01 really as good as some people here seem to think? You be the judge.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...gi?id=a1322c8e

http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...gi?id=9ccb6973

http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...gi?id=dd31231f

http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...gi?id=d5a40ebb

http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...gi?id=8b540909

http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...gi?id=7f57ed28
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  #45  
Old 07-15-2014, 07:10 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
I am not a fan of discussions about hypothetical trades. This discussion is a an ugly merge of the dreaded hypothetical trade with "aren't the Cubbies dreamy..."

The Cubbie prospects, I frankly hope they do well for the true Cubs fans I know and love. However the constant boasting, all the hype on radio, TV, Internet and even here on a White Sox discussion site where you get pounced on by the usual suspects here well for the slightest word of skepticism - well spoils the good will I sincerely expressed.
Things have changed since I was a young Sox fan. I never wanted to trade places with the Cubs, even in 1968-70. Their hard core fans seemed to feel the same way, although at times we would profess a liking and respect for certain players on the other side. It was great living in a 2 team city, but we had ours and they had theirs.

Last edited by SI1020; 07-15-2014 at 07:20 PM.
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