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  #31  
Old 07-11-2014, 12:58 AM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
This may be the perfect storm to dump Danks salary and get some kind of return. I never thought it was possible, we will see now.
I'd be up for trading him as long as it meant good prospects or a salary dump and investment in the future. If both Dunn and Danks came off the the offseason, that would free up a LOT of funds. The question: what can we expect out of Danks? Are we seeing him pitch more to his potential?

As for Beckham, he's not been a total bust IMO. He's been in the majors for a while now, so we've gotten more from him that a lot of players. Hope if he sticks around another year that he makes more progress. I could see him get traded along with Dunn first. Someone will want Dunn as a LH rental hitter.
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  #32  
Old 07-11-2014, 10:44 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by soxfanreggie View Post
I'd be up for trading him as long as it meant good prospects or a salary dump and investment in the future. If both Dunn and Danks came off the the offseason, that would free up a LOT of funds. The question: what can we expect out of Danks? Are we seeing him pitch more to his potential?

As for Beckham, he's not been a total bust IMO. He's been in the majors for a while now, so we've gotten more from him that a lot of players. Hope if he sticks around another year that he makes more progress. I could see him get traded along with Dunn first. Someone will want Dunn as a LH rental hitter.
I'd love to see us dump Danks. But I think we'd have to eat a lot of cash to do so and the return would be small. Not sure if that's a wise move. At worst, he's an inning eater.

I'll probably dance a jig when Dunn is traded, he's probably my least favorite Sox player in 20 years, and I have to look back at my excitement when the Sox signed him and laugh.

I also think it would be wise to sell higher on Viciedo before Boras gets him much more salary in arb the next two years and try and get something for De Aza while we can.

As for the rest, I'm not in a real hurry to trade anyone else unless the return is solid and Jerry spends that freed up cash on younger, talented free agents this winter. I'd rather see Alexei and Beckham in our infield than rookies.
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  #33  
Old 07-11-2014, 12:12 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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I rather see rookies post all star break than Beckham on this non-contender.
Teams have gotten reasonable returns for starters no better than Danks like Feldman and Norris (who was much worse).
But if the Sox want a real return, without trading an untouchable, that means Alexei.
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  #34  
Old 07-11-2014, 02:27 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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I rather see rookies post all star break than Beckham on this non-contender.
Teams have gotten reasonable returns for starters no better than Danks like Feldman and Norris (who was much worse).
But if the Sox want a real return, without trading an untouchable, that means Alexei.
I know.

But trading those guys theoretically adds a year or two to the "reload" unless Rick and Jerry are very proactive this offseason. I want us to contend sooner.
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  #35  
Old 07-11-2014, 02:35 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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I know.

But trading those guys theoretically adds a year or two to the "reload" unless Rick and Jerry are very proactive this offseason. I want us to contend sooner.
I have gone back and forth on "Can we contend sooner?" in my own mind. Going into this year I thought the White Sox would not be competitive until 2016, maybe even 2017 but at times this that we might have enough of a core to be competitive next year. The problem with being competitive next year is that the Sox would be back to where they were in 2009-2012, making a bunch of short term moves in hopes of being good enough to win a mediocre division or snag a second wild card spot. This team still has a lot of holes to fill and I'd rather the team take a long term view to be consistently competitive for years to come and that probably means trading guys like Alexei and Danks.
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  #36  
Old 07-11-2014, 04:53 PM
balke balke is offline
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Now Lind has a broken foot. Unloading Dunn and Beckham may be a reality.
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  #37  
Old 07-11-2014, 05:07 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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I have gone back and forth on "Can we contend sooner?" in my own mind. Going into this year I thought the White Sox would not be competitive until 2016, maybe even 2017 but at times this that we might have enough of a core to be competitive next year. The problem with being competitive next year is that the Sox would be back to where they were in 2009-2012, making a bunch of short term moves in hopes of being good enough to win a mediocre division or snag a second wild card spot. This team still has a lot of holes to fill and I'd rather the team take a long term view to be consistently competitive for years to come and that probably means trading guys like Alexei and Danks.
I think there are some good long term pieces that are already in place. Adam Eaton, Avisail Garcia, Jose Abreu, Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, Conor Gillaspie, etc. I wouldn't call any of those guys short term fixes. If Avisail Garcia comes back healthy and productive, 2/3 of our outfield will be locked up, young and cheap for many years. Quintana and Sale are already locked up cheap and that is a solid #1 and #2 starter. With funds being freed up by the departures of Dunn, Konerko, Lindstrom, etc. and possibly other trades, I believe the future is looking up for the Sox. I think South Side Sox put it best. Last year, everyone was like "BLOW IT UP!" and this year everyone is saying "Why isn't this team complete?". I think that goes a long way towards showing how much progress they have made in 1 year.
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  #38  
Old 07-11-2014, 05:59 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by Foulke You View Post
I think there are some good long term pieces that are already in place. Adam Eaton, Avisail Garcia, Jose Abreu, Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, Conor Gillaspie, etc. I wouldn't call any of those guys short term fixes. If Avisail Garcia comes back healthy and productive, 2/3 of our outfield will be locked up, young and cheap for many years. Quintana and Sale are already locked up cheap and that is a solid #1 and #2 starter. With funds being freed up by the departures of Dunn, Konerko, Lindstrom, etc. and possibly other trades, I believe the future is looking up for the Sox. I think South Side Sox put it best. Last year, everyone was like "BLOW IT UP!" and this year everyone is saying "Why isn't this team complete?". I think that goes a long way towards showing how much progress they have made in 1 year.
I agree with what you have stated but my major concern is how to get the remaining pieces. The Sox only real chip is Ramirez and it seems as though each day his worth decreases. Getting quality FA's is a very tough situation considering the Sox have to compete with the "big boys" and rarely will outbid them. Filling in the remaining holes will be very difficult to do.
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  #39  
Old 07-11-2014, 07:25 PM
balke balke is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
I agree with what you have stated but my major concern is how to get the remaining pieces. The Sox only real chip is Ramirez and it seems as though each day his worth decreases. Getting quality FA's is a very tough situation considering the Sox have to compete with the "big boys" and rarely will outbid them. Filling in the remaining holes will be very difficult to do.
This is a team that had a payroll of $124 million last season. Going into next season they could be below 35 million. Money won't be a problem in free agency.

I fully expect a #2 power bat (3-hole or clean-up) to be had. I believe the Sox will try to add another via trade. I could see an expensive RHP in their future as well.

Money shouldn't be an issue. I'd rather they hold on to the best players they can right now, and build carefully. Ramirez should be in those plans.

Last edited by balke; 07-11-2014 at 08:00 PM.
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  #40  
Old 07-11-2014, 08:12 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by balke View Post
This is a team that had a payroll of $124 million last season. Going into next season they could be below 35 million. Money won't be a problem in free agency.

I fully expect a #2 power bat (3-hole or clean-up) to be had. I believe the Sox will try to add another via trade. I could see an expensive RHP in their future as well.

Money shouldn't be an issue. I'd rather they hold on to the best players they can right now, and build carefully. Ramirez should be in those plans.

Having and spending the kind of money needed to compete in top tier free agency are two different issues.

Regarding adding through trade, unless Ramirez is in the mix dont count on much in return for the other stiffs which are tradeable.
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  #41  
Old 07-11-2014, 08:26 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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You need to trade Ramirez this year while you can. He has proven that he isn't "back" and just had a hot couple of months. He is back to his underwhelming self now, and if we can get a long term asset for him we should. He is in his 30s, and its already been downhill, its not going to get better.
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  #42  
Old 07-11-2014, 10:49 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
You need to trade Ramirez this year while you can. He has proven that he isn't "back" and just had a hot couple of months. He is back to his underwhelming self now, and if we can get a long term asset for him we should. He is in his 30s, and its already been downhill, its not going to get better.
Agree 100% and for the reasons you described.
He should be our prime candidate. It's just really time to move him.
Beckham and Dunn too, obviously, but Alexei could bring a return.
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  #43  
Old 07-11-2014, 10:57 PM
balke balke is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
You need to trade Ramirez this year while you can. He has proven that he isn't "back" and just had a hot couple of months. He is back to his underwhelming self now, and if we can get a long term asset for him we should. He is in his 30s, and its already been downhill, its not going to get better.
If the deal comes along that makes sense, yeah. I don't think you actively shop your All-star SS and create a bigger hole in the lineup for a prospect at a lesser value position.

Alexei is a top 5 shortstop this year. I am all for "sell-high", but what's the market right now for SS? He'd likely have to be packaged, and most packages the Sox are offering would be salary dumps - damaging the return.

Why make more holes?
Also, with PK gone, can use some veterans around the clubhouse.
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  #44  
Old 07-11-2014, 11:02 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by balke View Post
If the deal comes along that makes sense, yeah. I don't think you actively shop your All-star SS and create a bigger hole in the lineup for a prospect at a lesser value position.

Alexei is a top 5 shortstop this year.
He may be, but it's not like he's a great player. The difference between him and an average SS is modest. This team needs talent across the board. Selling high will help acquire it.
I think he's pretty marketable - certainly a lot more marketable then Castro or Elvis Andrus.
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  #45  
Old 07-11-2014, 11:28 PM
HarryChappas HarryChappas is offline
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Originally Posted by balke View Post
If the deal comes along that makes sense, yeah. I don't think you actively shop your All-star SS and create a bigger hole in the lineup for a prospect at a lesser value position.

Alexei is a top 5 shortstop this year. I am all for "sell-high", but what's the market right now for SS? He'd likely have to be packaged, and most packages the Sox are offering would be salary dumps - damaging the return.

Why make more holes?
Also, with PK gone, can use some veterans around the clubhouse.
I agree. What people do not understand is we have NO replacement for Alexei. A FA SS of his caliber will cost 20 mill. a year. Keep him until contract up and hope we have developed a replacement ( no it won't be Anderson). We are 4 players away at around 40 mill. Jerry is getting old so spend NOW. Melky, Shields, catcher and closer. Easy. How's the rotation of Sale, Q, Shields, Danks, and Rodon look?
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