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  #31  
Old 07-07-2014, 05:17 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
That's different from being a great prospect.

Go back and read the trade rumors about what the Cubs were asking, what they weren't accepting for Samardzija. What the Cubs got for Samardzija and Hammel was less.
But they did get that. Sometimes, 1 top 5 prospect is better than 2 top 40 guys. Russell is a SPECIAL player. Face of the franchise player. The Cubs have one of the best systems in all of baseball, and Russell is now the top of it.

If you hate the Cubs, you better hope these guys dont work out, because they have one of the best up and coming teams in baseball, and will have the money to buy pitching when they need too.
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  #32  
Old 07-07-2014, 05:31 PM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
But they did get that. Sometimes, 1 top 5 prospect is better than 2 top 40 guys. Russell is a SPECIAL player. Face of the franchise player. The Cubs have one of the best systems in all of baseball, and Russell is now the top of it.

If you hate the Cubs, you better hope these guys dont work out, because they have one of the best up and coming teams in baseball, and will have the money to buy pitching when they need too.
And IF it does not work? 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015(?) all those years of waving the White Flag will mean what?

And when exactly is this Grand Plan supposed to kick in? IIRC it was 3 years at first. Now is it a 5 year plan?
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  #33  
Old 07-07-2014, 09:13 PM
canOcorn canOcorn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
That's different from being a great prospect.

Go back and read the trade rumors about what the Cubs were asking, what they weren't accepting for Samardzija. What the Cubs got for Samardzija and Hammel was less.
McKinney is a great prospect, as someone who wasn't the center piece of the deal. He isn't a top 10 prospect in MiLB, but was a 1st round pick out of HS last year and dominated kids older than him last year. He skipped Oakland's Midwest League stop this year and is doing ok against prospects much older than him (I believe 2nd youngest kid in the league).

Maybe it's semantics, but I consider almost all previous year 1st round draft picks as quality prospects (obvious caveats) and one who crushed it against his older competition last year and holding his own against much older competition this year to be a "great" prospect.
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  #34  
Old 07-07-2014, 09:31 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
And IF it does not work? 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015(?) all those years of waving the White Flag will mean what?

And when exactly is this Grand Plan supposed to kick in? IIRC it was 3 years at first. Now is it a 5 year plan?
Bryant, Baez and Russell are all very close to graduating to the majors.

They have a large amount of top prospects, but as said, little in the way of pitching.
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  #35  
Old 07-08-2014, 11:13 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Bryant, Baez and Russell are all very close to graduating to the majors.

They have a large amount of top prospects, but as said, little in the way of pitching.
The narrative is that The Theos is stockpiling all these great prospects and soon, very soon, the Cubbies are going to be the best baseball team in MLB history. However isn't there also a possibility they could wind up like the Royals or Rays, rebuilding and coming away with nothing?

I bet the Rays and the Royals wish they got the same fawning praise on their prized prospects as the Cubbies are getting.
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  #36  
Old 07-08-2014, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
The narrative is that The Theos is stockpiling all these great prospects and soon, very soon, the Cubbies are going to be the best baseball team in MLB history. However isn't there also a possibility they could wind up like the Royals or Rays, rebuilding and coming away with nothing?

I bet the Rays and the Royals wish they got the same fawning praise on their prized prospects as the Cubbies are getting.
They did. Everyone was head over heels for Hosmer, Moustakas, Alex Gordon, Delmon Young, Tim Beckham, Evan Longoria, etc...

Yes there is a chance the Cubbies come away with nothing, but I wouldn't say the Rays have come away with nothing, and the Royal have finally started to compete as well. Of course there's a risk.
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  #37  
Old 07-08-2014, 12:50 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
The narrative is that The Theos is stockpiling all these great prospects and soon, very soon, the Cubbies are going to be the best baseball team in MLB history. However isn't there also a possibility they could wind up like the Royals or Rays, rebuilding and coming away with nothing?

I bet the Rays and the Royals wish they got the same fawning praise on their prized prospects as the Cubbies are getting.
Difference is Cubs have a big market payroll to start spending when the Kids get there.

And lol at the best team in MLB history hyperbole.
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  #38  
Old 07-08-2014, 01:17 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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The cubs look like they will have some everyday players for a while, but I just don't think the pitching will even be available to them. They assume that pitchers will be available to sign via free agency, but this isn't the same market as it used to be. Teams are giving long contracts now to young pitchers taking them away from being FA in prime years (ie Sale). They also will be competing to buy pitching with about 15 other big spending teams. Pretty hard to build a rotation via free agents. This all not to mention that the Cardinals aren't going anywhere either anytime soon...
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  #39  
Old 07-08-2014, 01:55 PM
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It's always amazing how much praise is heaped upon the Cubs locally after they make one of these trades. Every decision they make is a master stroke in the eyes of some.

I'm still waiting for Mike Olt's big breakthrough.
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  #40  
Old 07-08-2014, 02:08 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
Difference is Cubs have a big market payroll to start spending when the Kids get there.

And lol at the best team in MLB history hyperbole.
You're absolutely right. The Cubs are NOT a small market team like the Rays or Royals. Comparing the high revenue Cubs to KC and TB is apples and oranges. Once they get a solid core together locked in at low salary, Ricketts will likely open up the pocket book and have lots of money to spend to land some All-Star quality veterans to fill whatever holes they have. Also, they won't struggle to retain star players once they hit their arb or FA years nearly as much as a small market team does.

I'm not anointing Theo a success by any means, but it looks to me like his plan is coming along great so far. He's managed to amass some great looking talent in the course of something like 3 years.

I hate the Cubs as much as anyone and love to revel in their perpetual empty promises and failures, but it really wouldn't surprise me to see them get back to the playoffs before the White Sox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
The cubs look like they will have some everyday players for a while, but I just don't think the pitching will even be available to them. They assume that pitchers will be available to sign via free agency, but this isn't the same market as it used to be. Teams are giving long contracts now to young pitchers taking them away from being FA in prime years (ie Sale). They also will be competing to buy pitching with about 15 other big spending teams. Pretty hard to build a rotation via free agents. This all not to mention that the Cardinals aren't going anywhere either anytime soon...
With a surplus of highly rated position player talent, the Cubs could very well use some of those prospects to land the pitching talent they are in need of.....just like the A's landing two pitchers from the Cubs in this trade. Not all pieces need to come in via free agency. Detroit has used their wealth of talent to land some of the best players in the game (Scherzer, Cabrera).
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  #41  
Old 07-08-2014, 02:09 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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It amazes me that some Sox fans can't just admit Theo has not done a bad job. He has done an incomplete job. But if the Cubs pull this off, its dangerous, because they will have a pipeline that allows them to be good for a very long time. Look at what a similar approach did for the Red Sox, when Ellsbury, Pedroia, Lester and company all come up together.And The Red Sox had plenty of failed prospects as well. Lars Anderson being one major disappointment. But when you have the foundation, you can always find a way to build on it.

I am not saying the cubs are going to be the 27 yankees, or even win a title, but their future is very bright, and if you think otherwise, well, haters gonna hate I guess.
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  #42  
Old 07-08-2014, 02:14 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
It's always amazing how much praise is heaped upon the Cubs locally after they make one of these trades. Every decision they make is a master stroke in the eyes of some.

I'm still waiting for Mike Olt's big breakthrough.
The Dempster and Garza trades were duds. Theo probably over-estimated what they would command in a mid-season trade.

But, it looks like he got a great deal in landing Russell. Sure, he gave up a lot. But Samardjia would hit free agency before the Cubs were competitive again anyway. Russell and Bryant sound like two great young players to build a successful team around. Sure, they haven't accomplished anything yet, but these two players have been hyped for good reason.
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  #43  
Old 07-08-2014, 02:38 PM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
It's always amazing how much praise is heaped upon the Cubs locally after they make one of these trades. Every decision they make is a master stroke in the eyes of some.

I'm still waiting for Mike Olt's big breakthrough.
That's what I was thinking about. The Trib has a continious front page (website) "THE FUTURE FIVE" on The Prospects. The Royals prospects got some national attention, and understandably so. But the adoring, fawning and boastful coverage put out there on The Theos Cubbie prospects is so over the top. The Royals probably nothing close to the adoration and fanboy stuff from the local press.
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  #44  
Old 07-08-2014, 03:32 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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The Cubs are favorites locally and nationally. If Theo pulls it off and the Cubs morph into a top tier team for an extended period the White Sox might as well move to Taiwan. That's just the reality. It's even more intense because in many quarters Theo is looked upon as the baseball genius of all time. It also appears to me that his grace period has been extended indefinitely. As for the recent trade with the A's, Russell is the only one the Cubs got that makes my baseball pulse race a little. Trying to be as objective as a die hard Sox fan can, I'd say the jury is still out on Theo and his grand experiment.
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  #45  
Old 07-08-2014, 03:34 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
It's always amazing how much praise is heaped upon the Cubs locally after they make one of these trades. Every decision they make is a master stroke in the eyes of some.

I'm still waiting for Mike Olt's big breakthrough.
Not me. I'm still waiting on young phenoms like Brett Jackson and Josh Vitters myself.
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