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  #16  
Old 06-28-2014, 05:31 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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I guess now the only question is, does Abreu tie Dimaggioo's record or does he surpass it by 20 or so games?


Discuss.
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  #17  
Old 06-28-2014, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
I guess now the only question is, does Abreu tie Dimaggioo's record or does he surpass it by 20 or so games?


Discuss.
There is one more question: what record are you referring to?
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  #18  
Old 06-28-2014, 06:21 PM
ChicagoG19 ChicagoG19 is offline
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Didn't get a chance to watch the game today, but saw the box score. I am happy we won, but I feel like we are turning back into a home run or no run team. While home runs are a good thing, I hope the team doesn't just sit back and wait for them going forward.
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  #19  
Old 06-28-2014, 09:56 PM
Railsplitter Railsplitter is offline
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Good way to start the second half.
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  #20  
Old 06-28-2014, 10:13 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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There is one more question: what record are you referring to?
Consecutive games with a hit.
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  #21  
Old 06-28-2014, 11:05 PM
SBSoxFan SBSoxFan is offline
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Why was Dunn not pinch run for in the top of the ninth yet the Sox had a pinch runner for Viciedo who was trailing Dunn? I understand Sierra replaced Viciedo in the outfield, but Dunn was in scoring position and then did not score on a base hit. From looking at the roster, it looks like the only option would have been Nieto which then leaves you without your #2 catcher. However, going to the bottom of the ninth, you're less likely to need Dunn again if you have a 3-run lead instead of a 2-run lead.

Good thing the Sox didn't need that fifth run.
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  #22  
Old 06-28-2014, 11:18 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Why was Dunn not pinch run for in the top of the ninth yet the Sox had a pinch runner for Viciedo who was trailing Dunn? I understand Sierra replaced Viciedo in the outfield, but Dunn was in scoring position and then did not score on a base hit. From looking at the roster, it looks like the only option would have been Nieto which then leaves you without your #2 catcher. However, going to the bottom of the ninth, you're less likely to need Dunn again if you have a 3-run lead instead of a 2-run lead.

Good thing the Sox didn't need that fifth run.
Because they wanted the defensive replacement more than the pinch runner for Dunn. What they need to do is use a starting pitcher as a PR in that situation.
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  #23  
Old 06-29-2014, 12:00 AM
slavko slavko is offline
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Because they wanted the defensive replacement more than the pinch runner for Dunn. What they need to do is use a starting pitcher as a PR in that situation.
Correctamundo. Wound up with fast guys on 1st and 2nd and a baseclogger on 3rd. I just watched that save through the magic of Comcast on Demand. Putnam's not the answer at closer. At least he doesn't walk guys.
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  #24  
Old 06-29-2014, 01:58 AM
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Correctamundo. Wound up with fast guys on 1st and 2nd and a baseclogger on 3rd. I just watched that save through the magic of Comcast on Demand. Putnam's not the answer at closer. At least he doesn't walk guys.
I don't think anyone suggested Putnam was the closer. He got out of the eighth-inning jam, and the Sox didn't replace him with a closer in the ninth. It appears the Sox don't have a closer right now, using two different pitchers to close out wins in consecutive games.

one thing keeping the Sox from pinch-running for Dunn was the fact that Dunn was the DH. Any runner going in for him wouldn't have been able to go out on defense without it costing the Sox the use of the DH, a position the Sox wouldn't want to be in with even a three-run lead and a tentative bullpen, which would have been the situation the Sox would have been playing for with a pinch runner. Garcia was already in the game. Ramirez had pinch hit. Sierra ran for Viciedo because he was needed to replace Viciedo on defense. It wasn't as if you could pinch-run Sierra for Dunn and send him out to play defense in the ninth. You would have your pitcher hitting behind Sierra who would have been hitting behind Abreu.

Last edited by TDog; 06-29-2014 at 02:11 AM.
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  #25  
Old 06-29-2014, 05:43 AM
SBSoxFan SBSoxFan is offline
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I don't think anyone suggested Putnam was the closer. He got out of the eighth-inning jam, and the Sox didn't replace him with a closer in the ninth. It appears the Sox don't have a closer right now, using two different pitchers to close out wins in consecutive games.

one thing keeping the Sox from pinch-running for Dunn was the fact that Dunn was the DH. Any runner going in for him wouldn't have been able to go out on defense without it costing the Sox the use of the DH, a position the Sox wouldn't want to be in with even a three-run lead and a tentative bullpen, which would have been the situation the Sox would have been playing for with a pinch runner. Garcia was already in the game. Ramirez had pinch hit. Sierra ran for Viciedo because he was needed to replace Viciedo on defense. It wasn't as if you could pinch-run Sierra for Dunn and send him out to play defense in the ninth. You would have your pitcher hitting behind Sierra who would have been hitting behind Abreu.
Wouldn't whoever pinch ran for Dunn have become the DH?
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  #26  
Old 06-29-2014, 06:47 AM
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Wouldn't whoever pinch ran for Dunn have become the DH?
If your pinch-runner for Dunn went in to play defense in the ninth, as Sierra was doing for Viciedo, you wouldn't have a DH anymore. Your pitcher would be in the lineu;.
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  #27  
Old 06-29-2014, 10:05 AM
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If your pinch-runner for Dunn went in to play defense in the ninth, as Sierra was doing for Viciedo, you wouldn't have a DH anymore. Your pitcher would be in the lineu;.
I understand that. But if you pinch run, say, Nieto for Dunn, then Nieto is the DH. You can still replace Viciedo with Sierra, both on base and in the outfield. Your only risk there is loosing Flowers later in the game. Given that it was the bottom of the ninth, that case is unlikely.

Your top priority in the top of the ninth is to score an additional run. I only "saw" the hit that got Dunn from second to third on gameday. So, it's possible a faster runner would not have scored anyway. But it is a fact that Dunn did not score on the base hit, while, ironically, the Blue Jays scored their run in the bottom of the ninth in the same situation.

Seems like a glaring tactical error to me, even if did not affect the final outcome.
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  #28  
Old 06-29-2014, 11:26 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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I understand that. But if you pinch run, say, Nieto for Dunn, then Nieto is the DH. You can still replace Viciedo with Sierra, both on base and in the outfield. Your only risk there is loosing Flowers later in the game. Given that it was the bottom of the ninth, that case is unlikely.

Your top priority in the top of the ninth is to score an additional run. I only "saw" the hit that got Dunn from second to third on gameday. So, it's possible a faster runner would not have scored anyway. But it is a fact that Dunn did not score on the base hit, while, ironically, the Blue Jays scored their run in the bottom of the ninth in the same situation.

Seems like a glaring tactical error to me, even if did not affect the final outcome.
You don't want to use your backup catcher as a pinch-runner for the DH pretty much for the same reason you don't want to pinch run someone going in on defense for the DH. It establishes your backup catcher as the DH. If Flowers breaks his hand on a foul tip, for example, you lose your DH. Nieto has been used as a pinch-runner (for Konerko, I think), but in that situation Flowers had come out for a pinch-hitter. If you balance the potential risk and potential gain pinch-running Nieto for Dunn, it isn't a high percentage move. Having seen the game on MLB, I don't know that Nieto would have been sent home from second on the out. He certainly wouldn't have been sent home on the Flowers foul fly. In either case, you may well have been complaining about the Sox running themselves out of an inning with a catcher being used as a pinch-runner.

Not pinch-running for Dunn wasn't a glaring error at all because of who you had available on the bench (unless you're looking at maybe Scott Carroll, with the intent of having Konerko hit for Carroll if Dunn's spot in the order comes up) and where it would leave the lineup. If Garcia hadn't been in the game, if Ramirez hadn't pinch-hit for Gillaspie, you would have been in a position where you probably would have seen a pinch runner. Carry one less pitcher and you could have Jordan Danks on the bench to pinch run.

There is a benefit-risk analysis that goes into making moves. Pinch-running for Dunn only benefits you if you score only score Dunn's run. A lead of three runs with the end-game bullpen in question (and putting in Sierra defensively figures to strengthen your pitching) is better than two, but not such a big lead that you could lose the game because of the moves you made to get the run.

If Ventura hadn't pinch-hit for Gillaspie in the eighth, he would have had Ramirez available to pinch-run in the ninth, but Ventura made the right move in the eighth, and given what he had, I can't complain about the move he didn't make in the ninth.

The fault is with Flowers and Garcia not exceuting, not with Ventura not pinch-running.
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  #29  
Old 06-29-2014, 12:01 PM
SBSoxFan SBSoxFan is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
You don't want to use your backup catcher as a pinch-runner for the DH pretty much for the same reason you don't want to pinch run someone going in on defense for the DH. It establishes your backup catcher as the DH. If Flowers breaks his hand on a foul tip, for example, you lose your DH. Nieto has been used as a pinch-runner (for Konerko, I think), but in that situation Flowers had come out for a pinch-hitter. If you balance the potential risk and potential gain pinch-running Nieto for Dunn, it isn't a high percentage move. Having seen the game on MLB, I don't know that Nieto would have been sent home from second on the out. He certainly wouldn't have been sent home on the Flowers foul fly. In either case, you may well have been complaining about the Sox running themselves out of an inning with a catcher being used as a pinch-runner.

Not pinch-running for Dunn wasn't a glaring error at all because of who you had available on the bench (unless you're looking at maybe Scott Carroll, with the intent of having Konerko hit for Carroll if Dunn's spot in the order comes up) and where it would leave the lineup. If Garcia hadn't been in the game, if Ramirez hadn't pinch-hit for Gillaspie, you would have been in a position where you probably would have seen a pinch runner. Carry one less pitcher and you could have Jordan Danks on the bench to pinch run.

There is a benefit-risk analysis that goes into making moves. Pinch-running for Dunn only benefits you if you score only score Dunn's run. A lead of three runs with the end-game bullpen in question (and putting in Sierra defensively figures to strengthen your pitching) is better than two, but not such a big lead that you could lose the game because of the moves you made to get the run.

If Ventura hadn't pinch-hit for Gillaspie in the eighth, he would have had Ramirez available to pinch-run in the ninth, but Ventura made the right move in the eighth, and given what he had, I can't complain about the move he didn't make in the ninth.

The fault is with Flowers and Garcia not exceuting, not with Ventura not pinch-running.
I can. But I agree about the roster not being flexible enough.

FWLIW, Toronto's win expectancy increased from 3% to 8% when Dunn didn't score in the top of the 9th. Sure, there's a chance you lose Flowers, but it's extremely low.
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  #30  
Old 06-29-2014, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
You don't want to use your backup catcher as a pinch-runner for the DH pretty much for the same reason you don't want to pinch run someone going in on defense for the DH. It establishes your backup catcher as the DH. If Flowers breaks his hand on a foul tip, for example, you lose your DH. Nieto has been used as a pinch-runner (for Konerko, I think), but in that situation Flowers had come out for a pinch-hitter. If you balance the potential risk and potential gain pinch-running Nieto for Dunn, it isn't a high percentage move. Having seen the game on MLB, I don't know that Nieto would have been sent home from second on the out. He certainly wouldn't have been sent home on the Flowers foul fly. In either case, you may well have been complaining about the Sox running themselves out of an inning with a catcher being used as a pinch-runner.

Not pinch-running for Dunn wasn't a glaring error at all because of who you had available on the bench (unless you're looking at maybe Scott Carroll, with the intent of having Konerko hit for Carroll if Dunn's spot in the order comes up) and where it would leave the lineup. If Garcia hadn't been in the game, if Ramirez hadn't pinch-hit for Gillaspie, you would have been in a position where you probably would have seen a pinch runner. Carry one less pitcher and you could have Jordan Danks on the bench to pinch run.

There is a benefit-risk analysis that goes into making moves. Pinch-running for Dunn only benefits you if you score only score Dunn's run. A lead of three runs with the end-game bullpen in question (and putting in Sierra defensively figures to strengthen your pitching) is better than two, but not such a big lead that you could lose the game because of the moves you made to get the run.

If Ventura hadn't pinch-hit for Gillaspie in the eighth, he would have had Ramirez available to pinch-run in the ninth, but Ventura made the right move in the eighth, and given what he had, I can't complain about the move he didn't make in the ninth.

The fault is with Flowers and Garcia not exceuting, not with Ventura not pinch-running.
That's not a horrible risk to take though. The odds of Flowers getting injured to the point he cannot continue are pretty small and at that point in time they'd still be able to use Nieto to catch, just have to bat pitchers. With a 2-run lead in the 9th an insurance run would have been worth that risk, IMO.

Nieto might well have scored on that fly ball by Flowers which requred an awkward catch and throw to get the out at the plate. The throw was bad and a faster runner would have been sent. Dunn probably would have scored with that throw actually, but hindsight is 20/20.
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