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  #46  
Old 06-26-2014, 12:55 AM
StillMissOzzie StillMissOzzie is offline
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Of course you're correct. He's terrible, offensively and defensively. I remember when he was sold to us as a defensive upgrade over the Pierzynski years. Bull****. I'm not saying A.J. was good defensively. He was not. But to suggest that Flowers is a good receiver, or a good thrower, or a good caller of games, is just ridiculous.
Yup. Flowers was sold as a dropoff in offense, but an upgrade on defense. As I have said before, it sucks that RH was correct about the negative part (the dropoff in offense) but wrong about the positive part (the upgrade on defense). If this season does not relegate TFlo to the backup status he deserves, nothing will.

I aslo think that Scott Downs should be DFA'd ASAP. Maybe Webb ought to be sent back to AAA to regain some control. I would hate to give up on that live arm, but if he can't throw strikes, it doesn't matter how hard he throws.

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  #47  
Old 06-26-2014, 12:56 AM
tstrike2000 tstrike2000 is offline
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Dan Hayes on twitter is saying Scott Downs was hugging teammates and saying goodbyes, hope that means he's outta here.
See ya'.
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  #48  
Old 06-26-2014, 12:58 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by StillMissOzzie View Post
Yup. Flowers was sold as a dropoff in offense, but an upgrade on defense. As I have said before, it sucks that RH was correct about the negative part (the dropoff in offense) but wrong about the positive part (the upgrade on defense). If this season does not relegate TFlo to the backup status he deserves, nothing will.

I aslo think that Scott Downs should be DFA'd ASAP. Maybe Webb ought to be sent back to AAA to regain some control. I would hate to give up on that live arm, but if he can't throw strikes, it doesn't matter how hard he throws.

SMO
When we first got Flowers he was supposed to be an offensive upgrade but a defensive downgrade, turns out he was just a downgrade.

Meanwhile Dan Hayes is tweeting that Scott Downs was hugging teammates and two guys came up to him and said "happy trails." No official word but it looks like he was released, a bit like Ohman in 2012.
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  #49  
Old 06-26-2014, 01:04 AM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Meanwhile Dan Hayes is tweeting that Scott Downs was hugging teammates and two guys came up to him and said "happy trails." No official word but it looks like he was released, a bit like Ohman in 2012.
I saw the Hayes tweet too. It's the right call. Scott Downs had a nice career. He just doesn't have it anymore. I'm sure some bullpen hungry team will sign him because he is a veteran left hander and left handers get 15 chances to prove they can't pitch anymore. I wonder if Surkamp will get the call?
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  #50  
Old 06-26-2014, 01:05 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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When we first got Flowers he was supposed to be an offensive upgrade but a defensive downgrade, turns out he was just a downgrade.
FWIW, we acquired Flowers before he had ever played a game above A-ball, the number of guys who are "supposed to be" anything at that level that never amount to much is overwhelming.

Still, frustrating that we're over 250 games into Flowers career and there's no real to apparently find someone better than him.
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  #51  
Old 06-26-2014, 01:17 AM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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FWIW, we acquired Flowers before he had ever played a game above A-ball, the number of guys who are "supposed to be" anything at that level that never amount to much is overwhelming.

Still, frustrating that we're over 250 games into Flowers career and there's no real to apparently find someone better than him.
Heading into 2013, I was frustrated that the Sox didn't have a "plan B" if Flowers failed. I was also pretty surprised the Sox organization didn't sign a stop gap 1 year guy like the Twins did with Kurt Suzuki in the offseason. I felt Flowers would be gone for sure going into 2014 but they decided to give him one more chance to prove he isn't an everyday catcher. Our organization tends to be a bit stubborn about such things but I think they are learning once again that they need to move on from the guy.
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  #52  
Old 06-26-2014, 01:22 AM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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I saw the Hayes tweet too. It's the right call. Scott Downs had a nice career. He just doesn't have it anymore. I'm sure some bullpen hungry team will sign him because he is a veteran left hander and left handers get 15 chances to prove they can't pitch anymore. I wonder if Surkamp will get the call?
He should. Good curve. High K rate. Low BB rate. Keeping the ball in the park pretty well in Charlotte. Let's see if that translates to the bigs. Why not? We're not contending this year anyway.
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  #53  
Old 06-26-2014, 01:26 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Horrible baserunning by Dunn. Horrible, make that nonexistent, situational hitting by Beckham. Horrible catching by Flowers.

Ventura's teams are the dumbest in my lifetime.
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  #54  
Old 06-26-2014, 01:29 AM
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Ventura's teams are the dumbest in my lifetime.
Probably not coincidentally they're also the least talented, as well.
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  #55  
Old 06-26-2014, 01:35 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Horrible baserunning by Dunn. Horrible, make that nonexistent, situational hitting by Beckham. Horrible catching by Flowers.

Ventura's teams are the dumbest in my lifetime.
Agree - they lack talent but aren't near the least talented in the last 20 years. The 2007 team had far less talent than either 13 or 14 and managed to win 70 games.
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  #56  
Old 06-26-2014, 01:41 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Hey, this team has three All-Stars. How many Sox teams have had at least three All-Stars?
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  #57  
Old 06-26-2014, 01:42 AM
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Agree - they lack talent but aren't near the least talented in the last 20 years. The 2007 team had far less talent than either 13 or 14 and managed to win 70 games.
The '07 team had 6 of 9 everyday starters and 3 of 5 SP from back-to-back 90-win seasons with a World Series in there for good measure
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  #58  
Old 06-26-2014, 02:00 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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The '07 team had 6 of 9 everyday starters and 3 of 5 SP from back-to-back 90-win seasons with a World Series in there for good measure
In the last half that team was fielding Jerry Owens, Erstad, Gonzales, Richar, Fields (all season), Cintron, Mackowiak - none of those players could make this roster. The bullpen had 2 pitchers much better than anyone in this pen (Junks, Thornton) but the rest would be at the bottom of this staff (Logan, Buckvich).

The starters were okay but Contreras was awful that year and no one as good as Quintana or Sale.
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  #59  
Old 06-26-2014, 06:20 AM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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I mean, I'm not saying the Sox are very good here, but come on, four 1-run losses in a single week? That's just bad luck. There's absolutely no statistical correlation between how good or bad a team is and their record in 1-run ballgames. Those are always essentially just coin flips.
Came down to one bad pitch a game, we could with some better luck be 7-0 on this road trip.
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  #60  
Old 06-26-2014, 08:50 AM
Jerko Jerko is offline
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Well my theory is this; if your bullpen sucks, and you actually have a pitcher in there that is getting guys out, LEAVE HIM IN. Don't bring in a walk machine with one of the, if not THE, league leading HR and RBI guys up next. then you have to bring in ANOTHER pitcher cold to face him. A different pitcher for 3 consecutive batters? That's horse****.
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