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  #61  
Old 06-25-2014, 01:14 PM
fuzzy_patters fuzzy_patters is offline
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Downs and Belisario both have higher xFIPs than FIPs, and Downs' is much higher. When you consider that they also play in a park that should lead to higher than average homerun rates, that suggests that they aren't as good as those FIPs suggest.
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  #62  
Old 06-25-2014, 05:37 PM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Originally Posted by infohawk View Post
Apparently some had higher expectations for this season than I did. My expectation is that the 2014 Sox will finish around .500 - give or take a few games. Hahn has done a great job in starting a rebuild, but he's not done. The line-up has been improved with some young talent. Pitching remains an issue, particularly the back end of the rotation. The bullpen has some solid contributors, but there's certainly room for improvement. This team isn't meant to contend at this point and being good enough to win a mediocre division in 2014 should not be the goal.

Let's see what Hahn does at the trade deadline and during the offseason. In the meantime, enjoy watching the beginning of a good nucleus of young players competing together (Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton...Garcia when he returns). Ramirez and Beckham are having good seasons so far and Gillespie is a very serviceable third basemen. Decisions will need to be made on the future of players like Dunn, Beckham, Ramirez, and Viciedo for performance and/or financial reasons. There will probably be another round of trades and free agent signings over the next few months. There will be more talk about Micah Johnson's future with the Sox.

I, for one, have no problem watching a couple of mediocre seasons while the team works toward assembling what will hopefully be a serious contender.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
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  #63  
Old 06-25-2014, 08:47 PM
Viva Medias B's Viva Medias B's is offline
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I like Robin, but I think it's time to start thinking about going in a different direction eventually. I would not fire him now, but I would let him go if we're in last place and/or showing no signs of progress at the end of the season.
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  #64  
Old 06-25-2014, 08:57 PM
amsteel amsteel is online now
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If you think the Sox are gonna eat his extension less than a year after singing it, you haven't been paying attention. He's here til at least 2016 when the games he's mismanaging will actually matter.
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  #65  
Old 06-25-2014, 11:10 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Viva Medias B's View Post
I like Robin, but I think it's time to start thinking about going in a different direction eventually. I would not fire him now, but I would let him go if we're in last place and/or showing no signs of progress at the end of the season.
Naw, it's pretty obvious we're more than a few pieces away from a contender.

The key is making incremental progress and bringing in key pieces when our higher prices players hit FA and leave and/or dealt.

So for me, Robin is pretty steady and is good for the younger players. I can see him getting replaced when were a much better team, though.

My bigger concern is what happens to Cooper when Robin goes, as it's obvious Coop has a lot more autonomy than most pitching coaches, and would he be willing to take a step back for the next manager? IMO, Coop is a real asset, and that needs to be handled carefully so we don't lose him.
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  #66  
Old 06-25-2014, 11:45 PM
StillMissOzzie StillMissOzzie is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Wow. For those of you who don't know, here is a general range of FIP:

Excellent 2.90
Great 3.25
Above average 3.75
Average 4.00
Below average 4.20
Poor 4.50
Awful 5.00

Hard to believe Downs and Bellisario. The rest seem about right.
I contend that FIP must be lacking something or is just plain inadequate if Scott Downs is considered between Great and Above Average

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  #67  
Old 06-25-2014, 11:49 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Originally Posted by StillMissOzzie View Post
I contend that FIP must be lacking something or is just plain inadequate if Scott Downs is considered between Great and Above Average

SMO
FIP punishes pitchers for home runs allowed more than walks. Downs has only given up one home run all season. Belisario has given up two. FIP rewards them for generally keeping the ball in the park.
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  #68  
Old 06-25-2014, 11:56 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
FIP punishes pitchers for home runs allowed more than walks. Downs has only given up one home run all season. Belisario has given up two. FIP rewards them for generally keeping the ball in the park.
Also, especially in Belisario's case, the strike outs. Ronnie's got a 3.50 K/BB ratio right now, which would be 12th in the AL if he had enough IP to qualify, basically on par with such guys as Max Scherzer and James Shields and ahead of Yu Darvish.

As was noted earlier in this thread, Downs' xFIP (expected FIP) is pretty high, fly balls being hit off him are not leaving the yard, PROBABLY because he rarely pitches to more than a few batters per outing and still I guess holds some LOOGY power over LHB even if he can't keep them off base.
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  #69  
Old 06-26-2014, 08:08 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by hawkjt View Post
Davidson has to come thru...need a platoon at 3rd to take some pressure off of Conor's balky glove.
Davidson is a much worse fielder the Conor Gillaspie.

As for Ventura, it's hard to win with a garbage bullpen and probably the least productive OF/DH combination in baseball. I don't think it's his fault Belisario is the closer or Viciedo and DeAza have to be included in the lineup.
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Last edited by TheVulture; 06-26-2014 at 08:16 PM.
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  #70  
Old 06-27-2014, 08:16 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
FIP punishes pitchers for home runs allowed more than walks. Downs has only given up one home run all season. Belisario has given up two. FIP rewards them for generally keeping the ball in the park.
Not one of may favorite stats.
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  #71  
Old 06-27-2014, 08:35 AM
Maximo Maximo is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
I don't feel qualified to pass a professional judgment on Robin Ventura and his coaching staff. But I do know this: There are too many ex-White Sox players in that dugout. Loyalty is a good thing, but there has more to think about when making hiring decisions than this. It seems that people get hired because Jerry Reinsdorf is comfortable with them. And I believe that is the problem. Comfort is not everything.

There should be a change in management, and if it is not in personnel, it should be in approach. This ownership has done its share of good and bad things since 1981. But there is one glaring problem that persisits: the team cannot sustain success. It has success but it is fleeting. People should be asking themselves why.
Ditto......that loyalty from JR also extends to the broadcast booth and that's why we continue to hear the voices of Ed Farmer and Ken Harrelson on our radios and televisions. I've been asking myself "why" on those two for years.

JR has lost more money in a week than I've accumulated my entire life. Yet, if you're going to be in business, act like it. This could be an exciting, successful and thriving franchise if somebody put their mind to it. I don't have enough time left to wait 40+ years for the next World Series appearance.

Last edited by Maximo; 06-27-2014 at 08:55 AM.
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  #72  
Old 06-27-2014, 09:51 AM
tony1972 tony1972 is offline
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Ditto......that loyalty from JR also extends to the broadcast booth and that's why we continue to hear the voices of Ed Farmer and Ken Harrelson on our radios and televisions. I've been asking myself "why" on those two for years.

JR has lost more money in a week than I've accumulated my entire life. Yet, if you're going to be in business, act like it. This could be an exciting, successful and thriving franchise if somebody put their mind to it. I don't have enough time left to wait 40+ years for the next World Series appearance.
I do have to agree with this. I know WAY too many people who will only catch Sox games on MLBTV or the internet. They just refuse to watch the Sox on TV because of Hawk. The Sox could be a serious contender for years..win a World Series..and still have low TV ratings..simply because 2/3 of the fan base cannot bear a TV broadcast with the crying about umps, etc. the whole game.
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