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  #31  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:29 PM
Irishsox1 Irishsox1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
The Tigers (Ausmus) and Cardinals (Matheny) seem to prove all of this wrong.
Catchers are the safe bet when hiring young managers and are why so many MLB managers were catchers. Both of them with no experience would have been much better hires than Ventura based on being catchers and for having a pulse. Matheny gets the nod over Ausmus for having caught for so many games under LaRussa.
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  #32  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:30 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
This has surely been raised, but it bears repeating... Both the Tigers and Cardinals, two of the more enviably run outfits right now, did the exact same thing. Neither Ausmus or Matheny had any level of coaching or managerial experience before being hired to their positions. And, of course, next month the Hall of Fame will induct two guys, Tony LaRussa and Joe Torre, into baseball immortality as managers despite the fact neither of them had a game of coaching or managerial experience under their belts before being given MLB managerial jobs.
Lets not forget too that when Ventura was hired, other team executives LAUDED the move, claiming Ventura was one of the elite baseball minds out there who was perfect for bringing young kids along...

The thing is, you don't just start winning year 1 with young kids. You have to continually bring them a lone. Guys like Eaton, get a clue people, he was hurt all of last year, he had a cup of coffee, but this is a long season, longer than he is used too, he is going to have ups and downs. Look at how he has bounced back. In May he hit .224 with a .479 OPS. Robin kept with him, and he has a .799 OPS this month. Robin is having a positive impact on plenty of players. But no one is going to make untalented players talented.
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  #33  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:30 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
The Tigers (Ausmus) and Cardinals (Matheny) seem to prove all of this wrong.
Oy, this one again.

You pick two managers out of how many who have been hired with little to no experience who were successful?

So easy to remember the winners and forget the many losers.
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  #34  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:31 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Irishsox1 View Post
Catchers are the safe bet when hiring young managers and are why so many MLB managers were catchers. Both of them with no experience would have been much better hires than Ventura based on being catchers and for having a pulse. Matheny gets the nod over Ausmus for having caught for so many games under LaRussa.
Good Lord, Okay, had the Sox hired Ron Karkovice we would be running away with things right now!!! I see the light!
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  #35  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:32 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Lets not forget too that when Ventura was hired, other team executives LAUDED the move, claiming Ventura was one of the elite baseball minds out there who was perfect for bringing young kids along...
Links, please. I wasn't able to find any quotes.
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  #36  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:32 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Oy, this one again.

You pick two managers out of how many who have been hired with little to no experience who were successful?

So easy to remember the winners and forget the many losers.
True, but there's also plenty of guys with all sorts of credentials that get hired and burn out in just a few years, too.

Point is more that talent on roster is probably a better indicator of success than prior years coaching or managing.
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  #37  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:35 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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And, of course, next month the Hall of Fame will induct two guys, Tony LaRussa and Joe Torre, into baseball immortality as managers despite the fact neither of them had a game of coaching or managerial experience under their belts before being given MLB managerial jobs.
LaRussa managed for the Sox at AA and AAA in 1978 and 1979.
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  #38  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:36 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Point is more that talent on roster is probably a better indicator of success than prior years coaching or managing.
You may very well be right - but it seems like a lot of people want to blame either the players/talent or the manager, when in reality, it's somewhere in the middle.
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  #39  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:42 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
This has surely been raised, but it bears repeating... Both the Tigers and Cardinals, two of the more enviably run outfits right now, did the exact same thing. Neither Ausmus or Matheny had any level of coaching or managerial experience before being hired to their positions. And, of course, next month the Hall of Fame will induct two guys, Tony LaRussa and Joe Torre, into baseball immortality as managers despite the fact neither of them had a game of coaching or managerial experience under their belts before being given MLB managerial jobs.
Tony managed a couple of White Sox farm teams and coached briefly with the MLB team before he was plucked from AAA Iowa to replace Kessinger because Veeck had a cow when Kessinger didn't pinch hit for the pitcher in a blowout loss.
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  #40  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:01 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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I wasn't a fan of the Ventura hire and I'm dubious about his managerial abilities but this is a classic 're-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic' situation.

This team isn't built to win this year. Maybe - maybe - if Garcia didn't get hurt, we could hope for a WC, but just about everything would have had to go right.

My hope is that Hahn continues to make deals like the ones that netted the Sox Eaton, Garcia, and yes, Davidson and they field a team that is built to be a perennial contender. Hopefully, by that time, either Ventura has improved or they've replaced him.
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  #41  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:11 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
My hope is that Hahn continues to make deals like the ones that netted the Sox Eaton, Garcia, and yes, Davidson and they field a team that is built to be a perennial contender.

The problem with that is the Sox dont have tradeable assets (Peavy, Rios, Santiago) in order to make moves like last year. The only real asset is Ramirez.


I forgot Reed.

Last edited by Noneck; 06-24-2014 at 05:31 PM.
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  #42  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:36 PM
kba kba is offline
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
Tony managed a couple of White Sox farm teams and coached briefly with the MLB team before he was plucked from AAA Iowa to replace Kessinger because Veeck had a cow when Kessinger didn't pinch hit for the pitcher in a blowout loss.
Are you sure that's why Kessinger was replaced? It happened in 1979, well after the DH was in place and well before interleague play.
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  #43  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:41 PM
smac38 smac38 is offline
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Stay consistent, Robin. Consistently bad.


Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN

#WhiteSox sticking with Ronald Belisario at closer, per Robin Ventura. Also, Scott Carroll to start Thursday. Andre Rienzo to bullpen.
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  #44  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:06 PM
infohawk infohawk is offline
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
The only problem with your analysis is finishing around .500. They have been struggling within the division lately and they have a lot of games left in the division. What happens if they finish 15-20 games below .500 which is the pace they are at right now???
If they finish well below .500 it will most likely be because of the weakness of the starting rotation (3-5). That wouldn't be Robin's fault and it wouldn't reflect poorly on the solid acquisitions made by Hahn as he works to rebuild the club. I think that Hahn will work to strengthen the rotation via trade and free agency. Drafting Carlos Rodon, who reportedly has the talent to be fast-tracked to the majors, may begin to solidify the rotation.
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  #45  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:14 PM
tony1972 tony1972 is offline
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Although I do disagree with some of the moves Ventura makes..I like the fact he gives the White Sox offense 27 outs to work with.

In the Ozzie ball era..I felt we only had 22 or 23..due to Ozzie's love of sac bunts and giving the other pitchers 4 or 5 free outs every game. That drove me CRAZY.
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