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  #1  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:27 PM
G-Ville Sox G-Ville Sox is offline
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Default Ventura & Staff

I have not posted on here in a long time, but after the last two and a half weeks or so, I feel compelled to get other people's opinions.

At what time does firing Ventura become a realistic option? We are currently in the middle of his third epic collapse in as many years as manager. Year one, he at least made it to September. I hear all the radio ads talking about fundamentals, etc. and we are a horrible fundamental baseball team. Let's not even get into the handling of the pitching staff.

While I am on the topic, at what time does Don Cooper come under the microscope? Is everyone still blinded by the 2005 ALCS/Postseason? In my opinion, our pitching staff has done little/no improvement individually. We lead baseball in Walks (again), third in Wild Pitches and Hit Batters. Can we really say Andre Rienzo is any better of a pitcher than he was last July? Even John Danks, is he a better pitcher than 2010? Our bullpen has made little/no improvements since March 31st, and that falls on him as the coach of that position.

Any thoughts???
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:39 PM
Harry Potter Harry Potter is offline
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  #3  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:48 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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A manager doesnt teach players fundamentals anymore, if they learn anything in the majors its by the one of the many coaches on the staff. I dont think Ventura hired the coaching staff and maybe didnt even have a say in the hirings. Cooper is managements fair haired boy and probably has a lot more influence on the club than most people think. Hes not going anywhere until he wants to.
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  #4  
Old 06-23-2014, 11:09 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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We're a couple more losses away from another contract extension for Ventura.
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  #5  
Old 06-23-2014, 11:17 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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I like Cooper as pitching coach.
But I get the feeling that he's partially managing this team because of the weakness of Ventura, and that I'm leery of.
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2014, 07:49 AM
amsteel amsteel is offline
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Ventura's greatest asset as a manager was not being Ozzie Guillen. People hated Guillen so much at the end of his tenure that they could have hire hired parking cone with White Sox bumper sticker on it and it would have been adored. The Sox successfully (at least for 2+ years) were able to cover up the fact they made a bad hire by by hiring a fan favorite player despite being massively underqualified.

But after a blown division title and the prospect of 190 losses in 2 seasons, people are getting over their player crushes on RV and realizing he's bad at his job.

One thing I don't get is the extension. He's basically already a lame duck, I doubt anyone wants him at the helm when the games will actually matter.

In regards to Cooper, I always assumed his strength was off-field (mechanics, evaluation, etc) and not in-game strategy.
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  #7  
Old 06-24-2014, 08:08 AM
jamokes jamokes is offline
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Ventura and his coaching staff are a total product of King Jerry Reinsdorf. He is very loyal, too loyal to his ex-players. Boston coaching first base is a complete joke. How many guys get picked off? He's clueless. I liked Ozzie because if a player screwed up Ozzie held them responsible. Watch Robin after a tough loss, it's like it doesn't even bother him. Nice trade….Reed, a good closer for a 3rd baseman hitting .190 IN THE MINORS.
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  #8  
Old 06-24-2014, 08:30 AM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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I don't feel qualified to pass a professional judgment on Robin Ventura and his coaching staff. But I do know this: There are too many ex-White Sox players in that dugout. Loyalty is a good thing, but there has more to think about when making hiring decisions than this. It seems that people get hired because Jerry Reinsdorf is comfortable with them. And I believe that is the problem. Comfort is not everything.

There should be a change in management, and if it is not in personnel, it should be in approach. This ownership has done its share of good and bad things since 1981. But there is one glaring problem that persisits: the team cannot sustain success. It has success but it is fleeting. People should be asking themselves why.
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:11 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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The organization does not have a mirror.
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:21 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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I have a much better thought. Rather than fire or blame Ventura for whats going on, lets blame the ownership. In 34 years of ownership under JR the White Sox have made the playoffs 5 times. I'm convinced more and more his handling of the stadium situation and the building of the Cell might be the biggest mistake in the history of the franchise. That being said I wish JR would sell the team, the sooner the better. All in all I don't think anyone can say JRs ownership of the White Sox has been a successful one.
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  #11  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:26 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is online now
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Ideally, Ventura would be part of the 2014-2015 offseason purge. It won't happen, because it makes too much sense, but it would be nice.
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  #12  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:15 AM
ddog528 ddog528 is offline
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Didn't know Addison Reed was Trevor Hoffman. Silly me
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  #13  
Old 06-24-2014, 11:41 AM
captain54 captain54 is offline
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Reinsdorf has much much more input into how things are run than he would like people to believe. He hires people he is loyal to and vice versa, and they do what they are told, which is kind of brilliant because when things fall apart, the foot soldiers are there to fall on the sword
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  #14  
Old 06-24-2014, 12:27 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Ventura and his coaching staff are a total product of King Jerry Reinsdorf. He is very loyal, too loyal to his ex-players. Boston coaching first base is a complete joke. How many guys get picked off? He's clueless. I liked Ozzie because if a player screwed up Ozzie held them responsible. Watch Robin after a tough loss, it's like it doesn't even bother him. Nice trade….Reed, a good closer for a 3rd baseman hitting .190 IN THE MINORS.

Ozzie held Tim Raines, who was a great first base coach, responsible for something I never heard about and had him fired. And speaking of Ozzie, would you describe him as controllable?
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  #15  
Old 06-24-2014, 12:41 PM
infohawk infohawk is offline
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Apparently some had higher expectations for this season than I did. My expectation is that the 2014 Sox will finish around .500 - give or take a few games. Hahn has done a great job in starting a rebuild, but he's not done. The line-up has been improved with some young talent. Pitching remains an issue, particularly the back end of the rotation. The bullpen has some solid contributors, but there's certainly room for improvement. This team isn't meant to contend at this point and being good enough to win a mediocre division in 2014 should not be the goal.

Let's see what Hahn does at the trade deadline and during the offseason. In the meantime, enjoy watching the beginning of a good nucleus of young players competing together (Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton...Garcia when he returns). Ramirez and Beckham are having good seasons so far and Gillespie is a very serviceable third basemen. Decisions will need to be made on the future of players like Dunn, Beckham, Ramirez, and Viciedo for performance and/or financial reasons. There will probably be another round of trades and free agent signings over the next few months. There will be more talk about Micah Johnson's future with the Sox.

I, for one, have no problem watching a couple of mediocre seasons while the team works toward assembling what will hopefully be a serious contender.
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