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  #61  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:01 PM
salty99 salty99 is offline
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Frank Francisco?
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  #62  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:02 PM
captain54 captain54 is offline
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Lindstrom or Jones were the closers before they got hurt, this situation they are in wasnt planned.
I repeat. The closer situation coming into 2014 was a dice throw/keep your fingers crossed situation
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  #63  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Irishsox1 View Post
Ventura is the worst Sox manager record wise since Jim Fregosi, he's actually worse than Fregosi. Just too many losses.
Fregosi wasn't bad; he just got saddled with **** teams with absolutely no talent whatsoever.
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  #64  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:03 PM
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Frank Francisco?
No longer in the organization, thank goodness.
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  #65  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:03 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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I repeat. The closer situation coming into 2014 was a dice throw/keep your fingers crossed situation

And as i said, with this team it didnt matter.
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  #66  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:05 PM
amsteel amsteel is online now
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On the bright side, at the current rebuilding pace the Sox will be playing competitive ball in September around the same time Ventura's extension is up. Win-win!
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  #67  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by captain54 View Post
I repeat. The closer situation coming into 2014 was a dice throw/keep your fingers crossed situation
Given that this is a rebuilding club, I didn't disagree with that strategy at the time, and I don't disagree with it now.

The Sox aren't the type of team that should be throwing $10 million at Joe Nathan or trying to acquire Jonathan Papelbon in a trade. The organization is going through a transitional period here. I know the losing sucks. We just have to take our medicine now and hope for a brighter tomorrow.

Hahn inherited a complete mess, and he can't clean it all up in one offseason.
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  #68  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:07 PM
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And as i said, with this team it didnt matter.
I'm not following your logic. Isnt the point of MLB to try to win as many games as possible and put a product on the field that fans will pay to see?
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  #69  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:08 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Chris Sale will even tell you that today he had no business being in line for a W.

Further proof how useless that stat has become.
Obviously you had a chance to talk to Sale after the game. I'm in California without clubhouse access. Sale only gave up two earned runs. He gave up three in his last start. Both were quality starts.

Maybe ERA is useless stat because Sale had no business giving up only two earned runs. Maybe quality starts are meaningless.

A win for Sale would have been the most meaningful stat of the lot. He pitched out of two bases-loaded jams. He gave up fewer runs over six innings than Belisario gave up in one-third of an inning tonight. He pitched scoreless innings when he faced tougher jams than Belisario faced in the ninth. If you're going to take stats out of context, you render all stats meaningless.

Wins and losses really are really all that matter. The Sox now have a five-game losing streak. What is most frustrating about the losing streak is that the Sox could have, perhaps should have won all five of the games. Belisario isn't the only player, even reliever who failed to execute when execution was needed to win. The games have given the Sox opportunities to win every game in this losing streak. The first loss involved two eighth-inning runs breaking the tie. Tonight marked the second time this season that the Orioles have won when trailing after seven. They scored four runs in the eighth and ninth.

Belisario has only looked strong as a closer for the Sox in Dodger stadium. Every time I'm surprised Belisario is still closing, Webb comes in and reminds me why he isn't closing. More than a few teams this year, and the Sox have been the most prominent among them since early April, really should be closing by committee. Sometimes teams that do that, go with the hot hand, find closers. Closers who emerge in a competitive situation, who achieve closer status, tend to be better closers than those that have the role thrust upon them.
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  #70  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:10 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Yeah but are those two guys even legit plans to compete going into a season?

Nope and it didn't matter. Because no one expected to truly contend.

The irony is that was a good closer, we probably would be contending in our division to this point.
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  #71  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Obviously you had a chance to talk to Sale after the game. I'm in California without clubhouse access. Sale only gave up two earned runs. He gave up three in his last start. Both were quality starts.

Maybe ERA is useless stat because Sale had no business giving up only two earned runs. Maybe quality starts are meaningless.

A win for Sale would have been the most meaningful stat of the lot. He pitched out of two bases-loaded jams. He gave up fewer runs over six innings than Belisario gave up in one-third of an inning tonight. He pitched scoreless innings when he faced tougher jams than Belisario faced in the ninth. If you're going to take stats out of context, you render all stats meaningless.

Wins and losses really are really all that matter. The Sox now have a five-game losing streak. What is most frustrating about the losing streak is that the Sox could have, perhaps should have won all five of the games. Belisario isn't the only player, even reliever who failed to execute when execution was needed to win. The games have given the Sox opportunities to win every game in this losing streak. The first loss involved two eighth-inning runs breaking the tie. Tonight marked the second time this season that the Orioles have won when trailing after seven. They scored four runs in the eighth and ninth.

Belisario has only looked strong as a closer for the Sox in Dodger stadium. Every time I'm surprised Belisario is still closing, Webb comes in and reminds me why he isn't closing. More than a few teams this year, and the Sox have been the most prominent among them since early April, really should be closing by committee. Sometimes teams that do that, go with the hot hand, find closers. Closers who emerge in a competitive situation, who achieve closer status, tend to be better closers than those that have the role thrust upon them.
If I'm not mistaken, the Sox have led in all five. All five losses have been by one or two runs. This isn't like that Kansas City series a couple weeks back where the Sox just got their butts kicked. These were all winnable games.
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  #72  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Yeah but are those two guys even legit plans to compete going into a season?
Was this supposed to be a competitive year or a developmental one?

I think the initial plan for the bullpen was solid but due to injuries and failure to improve it hasn't worked out that way.
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  #73  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:11 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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I hate to tell you, but they aren't going to fire Ventura. LaRussa wouldn't be able to guide this bunch to a winning record. I'm sorry the team sucks.

You hit the nail on the head. Excellent post.
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  #74  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:14 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by captain54 View Post
I'm not following your logic. Isnt the point of MLB to try to win as many games as possible and put a product on the field that fans will pay to see?

At what cost? I have never seen a decent closer hanging off a tree to pick. What did you propose to get this closer? You Want to lock up and pay an old man like Nathan for a crap ass team? Makes no sense. I thought that Lindstrom was the perfect closer, last year of contract and may have brought in a mid level prospect if he did well by mid year. Rebuilding is not always about winning today.
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  #75  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:15 PM
SoxSpeed22 SoxSpeed22 is online now
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This has the makings of an extensive losing streak. When's Rodon getting here?
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