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  #46  
Old 06-04-2014, 08:41 PM
gobears1987 gobears1987 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
I happened to turn these two clowns on for a bit this afternoon to hear them crapping all over Hawk with their typical old-man-hate schtick, which is funny since Boers is not that far behind Hawk and actually looks much worse for wear.

But, the statement came up that "all Hawk nicknames are horrible."

Now, I can't recall how many fizzled out, but Big Hurt, 1-Dog and El Caballo are pretty damn great, with Frank's being obviously the most enduring and perfect nickname for any big league player I can remember.

I'm not sure how you can take anyone seriously when they make ridiculous comments like that.
You can save yourself a lot of brain cells by not listening to those two ****heads.

It's sad when Chicago only has one (maybe two) listenable sports talk shows.

Last edited by gobears1987; 06-04-2014 at 08:47 PM.
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  #47  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:05 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Abreu's nickname is fine with me.
Sure beats Bacon.
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  #48  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I have younger kids, and know a bunch of parents with kids in the 5-10 range who won't watch the Sox because they don't want their kids hearing Hawk screaming and cursing on the tv.
Come on. Of all the crap on tv that the FCC lets slide, Hawk's "screaming and cursing" is what parents are worried about? Hopefully the kids can watch some educational programming like the Kardashians or Mob Wives then if they're not watching Sox baseball. Or perhaps they'll become Rays fans because of the great DeWayne Staats.
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  #49  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:15 PM
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I am not a big B & B fan, I am able to pick up the act of the show and tolerate them sometimes. But its funny. You are calling them out for extreme hyperbole, while defending Hawk and his own extreme hyperbole. You can be biased if you want, and thats fine, every fan has that right, but its almost the exact same thing.
I'm able to pick up the "act" as well, which should have been apparent when I mentioned their "old-man-hate" schtick. Their act isn't some kind of high-brow entertainment that most plebians can't pick up on because of their education. There's no hyperbole involved. We're talking about the top two shortstops in the game right now.
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  #50  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:19 PM
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Yes, I have watched the games. I was simply responding to the comment that Tulo is just a product of Coors field. Its an ignorant statement that lacks merit, especially since USCF is a bandbox and pretty much known for being the 2nd best hitters park in the game.

I am sorry that Tulo is better than Alexei, and that Hawk sounds foolish for saying it. The numbers are also not that close, Tulo is slugging 200 points higher than Alexei. I am not sure what intangibles you are speaking of, and Tulowitzki is way ahead right now in defensive metrics.

I am not discrediting Alexie's play, but this is an example of what Hawk does that makes people hate Hawk. It would literally be like if he tried to say that Quintana has been so good, he would take him over Clayton Kershaw.
You're all over the roadmap on this one including the misuse of "literally", but within the context of what Hawk actually said (which most people haven't heard firsthand), there is nothing foolish at all.
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  #51  
Old 06-04-2014, 09:50 PM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Yes, I have watched the games. I was simply responding to the comment that Tulo is just a product of Coors field. Its an ignorant statement that lacks merit, especially since USCF is a bandbox and pretty much known for being the 2nd best hitters park in the game.

I am sorry that Tulo is better than Alexei, and that Hawk sounds foolish for saying it. The numbers are also not that close, Tulo is slugging 200 points higher than Alexei. I am not sure what intangibles you are speaking of, and Tulowitzki is way ahead right now in defensive metrics.

I am not discrediting Alexie's play, but this is an example of what Hawk does that makes people hate Hawk. It would literally be like if he tried to say that Quintana has been so good, he would take him over Clayton Kershaw.
Agree that Tulo is the better player, but this statement is pure bull****. Besides the thin air and homeruns, the Coors field outfield is absolutely humongous, more bloopers and pop-ups fall in for hits in that place than even Texas -- which is easily the best hitters park in the AL. What are normally outs are hits -- too much ground to cover for the outfielders. And I won't even go into breaking pitches not breaking and sliders backing up in the thin air.

The Cell is a great homerun hitting park, but with the small outfield alleys there aren't many pop-ups, or routine fly balls that become doubles. It is not a good hitters park for batting average.

Also Hawk is talking about strictly this year, so stop the indignation bit. And as far as Tulo goes: When a man hits .519 at home and .234 on the road there is something seriously wrong. That park has inflated many a players numbers and made some players rich when they were marginal players. Todd Helton outside of Coors = Lyle Overbay. The Cell has never done that for any player.
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  #52  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PalehosePlanet View Post
Agree that Tulo is the better player, but this statement is pure bull****. Besides the thin air and homeruns, the Coors field outfield is absolutely humongous, more bloopers and pop-ups fall in for hits in that place than even Texas -- which is easily the best hitters park in the AL. What are normally outs are hits -- too much ground to cover for the outfielders. And I won't even go into breaking pitches not breaking and sliders backing up in the thin air.

The Cell is a great homerun hitting park, but with the small outfield alleys there aren't many pop-ups, or routine fly balls that become doubles. It is not a good hitters park for batting average.

Also Hawk is talking about strictly this year, so stop the indignation bit. And as far as Tulo goes: When a man hits .519 at home and .234 on the road there is something seriously wrong. That park has inflated many a players numbers and made some players rich when they were marginal players. Todd Helton outside of Coors = Lyle Overbay. The Cell has never done that for any player.
Oh snap.
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  #53  
Old 06-05-2014, 09:16 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by PalehosePlanet View Post
Agree that Tulo is the better player, but this statement is pure bull****. Besides the thin air and homeruns, the Coors field outfield is absolutely humongous, more bloopers and pop-ups fall in for hits in that place than even Texas -- which is easily the best hitters park in the AL. What are normally outs are hits -- too much ground to cover for the outfielders. And I won't even go into breaking pitches not breaking and sliders backing up in the thin air.

The Cell is a great homerun hitting park, but with the small outfield alleys there aren't many pop-ups, or routine fly balls that become doubles. It is not a good hitters park for batting average.

Also Hawk is talking about strictly this year, so stop the indignation bit. And as far as Tulo goes: When a man hits .519 at home and .234 on the road there is something seriously wrong. That park has inflated many a players numbers and made some players rich when they were marginal players. Todd Helton outside of Coors = Lyle Overbay. The Cell has never done that for any player.
I am looking at the actual park factor ratings right now, and they seem to be incredibly skewed by the quality of the offensive team they play for. For example, in 2013, the Sox and the Rangers had bottom 15 offensive ball parks, but in 2012,USCF was number 2, while Arlington was number 4.

I suppose the fairest way to say it is Ramirez gets to play in a very nice hitters park as well.

Its statements like your last one that just ruin the whole arguement. Yes, Tulo has struggled on the road this year, but really, he has not been that bad. High OBP, .800 OPS, still REALLY good for a SS. The biggest problem on the road he has had, ironically, has no bearing on his ballpark, and that is strike outs.

You can slice it however you want, but its still a really bad statement to take Ramirez over Tulo.
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  #54  
Old 06-05-2014, 09:17 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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You're all over the roadmap on this one including the misuse of "literally", but within the context of what Hawk actually said (which most people haven't heard firsthand), there is nothing foolish at all.
Ok, I digress, Ramirez is the better SS, best in the league, no doubts about it.
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  #55  
Old 06-05-2014, 09:28 AM
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Cannon is the worst Hawk nickname since Canyon. Reminds me of when Red Kerr tried to tag Jordan as "Captain Marvel" in '84. Thankfully he gave up on that before it became too embarrassing. Hawk should take note.
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  #56  
Old 06-05-2014, 10:04 AM
PaleHoser PaleHoser is offline
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I think Abreu's nickname should be whatever "Please God Stay Healthy. Amen." is in Spanish. That may be a mouthful, so maybe it maps out to a good acronym?
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  #57  
Old 06-05-2014, 10:17 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by PalehosePlanet View Post
Agree that Tulo is the better player, but this statement is pure bull****. Besides the thin air and homeruns, the Coors field outfield is absolutely humongous, more bloopers and pop-ups fall in for hits in that place than even Texas -- which is easily the best hitters park in the AL. What are normally outs are hits -- too much ground to cover for the outfielders. And I won't even go into breaking pitches not breaking and sliders backing up in the thin air.

The Cell is a great homerun hitting park, but with the small outfield alleys there aren't many pop-ups, or routine fly balls that become doubles. It is not a good hitters park for batting average.
Absolutely correct.
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  #58  
Old 06-05-2014, 10:29 AM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I am looking at the actual park factor ratings right now, and they seem to be incredibly skewed by the quality of the offensive team they play for. For example, in 2013, the Sox and the Rangers had bottom 15 offensive ball parks, but in 2012,USCF was number 2, while Arlington was number 4.

I suppose the fairest way to say it is Ramirez gets to play in a very nice hitters park as well.

Its statements like your last one that just ruin the whole arguement. Yes, Tulo has struggled on the road this year, but really, he has not been that bad. High OBP, .800 OPS, still REALLY good for a SS. The biggest problem on the road he has had, ironically, has no bearing on his ballpark, and that is strike outs.

You can slice it however you want, but its still a really bad statement to take Ramirez over Tulo.
My point is: Playing in Denver can make an average hitter good, a good one great, etc.. The Cell does no such thing. There have been numerous players whose careers were saved by going to Denver. Andres Gallaraga, Dante Bichette, etc.. Hell even a terrible player like Brad Hawpe put up a couple years with good numbers. Of course, the exact opposite holds true for pitchers (more on that later.)

I remember an interview a while back with Jeff Cirillo, former Rox 3B, talking about why the team struggles to hit on the road, and he stated something along the lines of: We are really at a disadvantage when we hit on the road because the pitches we see actually have much better movement and the breaking pitches have more bite at other parks. I'm paraphrasing, it was a while ago, but you get the gist.

Let's put it another way; serious question here: Do you think the Rockies will ever have a pitcher, who pitched primarily for them in his career, that even sniffs the Hall of Fame? Do you think that any pitcher can actually survive in that park for a solid career and get to 200 wins with the Rockies? Honest questions.

My opinion: If they continue to play outdoors in Denver, and the Earth's climate remains status quo, I'll be dead a minimum of 200 years before the former happens and a 100 years for the latter.

Currently, their all time leader in wins is Aaron Cook w/72. Their career ERA leader is Ubaldo Jimenez at 3.66, but if you go down to 5th best ERA, it's Armando Reynoso w/a 4.65; 10th best is Shawn Chacon w/a 5.20.
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  #59  
Old 06-05-2014, 10:50 AM
hawkjt hawkjt is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Come on. Of all the crap on tv that the FCC lets slide, Hawk's "screaming and cursing" is what parents are worried about? Hopefully the kids can watch some educational programming like the Kardashians or Mob Wives then if they're not watching Sox baseball. Or perhaps they'll become Rays fans because of the great DeWayne Staats.

Exactly. The closest that Hawk has come to actual cursing in the telecasts is when he says ''I wish I could curse right now!''....and he has not even said that this year.

Typical B & B is to take a few 20 second clips of Hawk, among his over 500 hours on the air, and paint him as a wacko.

Hawk is aging, and once in awhile I revert to the old Micheal Corleone line about Frankie Pantangolo....'' the old man drank too much wine''...and disregard some of Hawks zanier comments.

The double standard for B & B (especially Bernstein) is glaring.
Bernstein is buddy buddy with Theo's crowd, and Theo famously embraced sabermetrics early on in Boston, so now in Bernsteins eyes, Theo and crowd can do no wrong, including their buddy Len Kasper.

Kasper says he hangs out with the Cubs GM on the road, and that is just cool. But Hawk is a blatant homer, but not Kasper.

Cubs are the worst team in baseball, and that is cool, to Bernstein, because they have a ''plan''....and everything is always right on schedule for their plan.

In Bernsteins world, baseball is simply a collection of stats, a series of robots working the plate and at the plate. He says that Hawk is always on the ump....BS. Hawk has noted some strike zones, but he always says, it is fine if they are consistent. He has not gone ballistic on the umps since they started showing the strike zone box, which has clammed him up...good.

And with replay, it has eliminated that source of ump error for the most part. So, this complaint from Bernstein is really no longer valid.

Screw B & B....Hawk is a great ambassador for White Sox baseball while they represent the Sox station by ignoring them or ripping on Hawk...

Kids are not watching Sox baseball because of Hawk? If Bernstein had his way, the announcer would simply spout sabermetric data...now that would ignite the kids out there!
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  #60  
Old 06-05-2014, 11:19 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I think I can still be pretty objective assessing our announcers- and after many years of living outside Chicago- so getting exposure to other announcers, etc. (including via MLB extra Innings)- I legitimately enjoy Harrelson as the White Sox TV announcer- he is the "crazy Uncle" at times- but for my money- he brings a unique perspective and content to a broadcast- that I would take 1000X vs. the generic announcers from other teams- I can't listen to a Cubs broadcast for more than a half inning- incredibly generic and boring- like elevator music.

I can't stand Farmer or DJ- if they left tomorrow- I'd be thrilled. I have alot of respect for Stone and his knowledge- but the chemistry is not good (though improved) with Harrelson.

When Paciorek is paired up with Harrelson- I minimze any fast forwarding throught the a recorded broadcast- thoroughly enjoy them as a team-

Bernstein is a tool- anyone that thinks the Cubs plan is brilliant isn't paying attention- even IF 100% of their "core" works out (which it won't) there's still no pitching-

In the end it's all completely subjective- but Hawk is unique and makes the game fun (including for casual fans like my wife and my nieces/nephews)- and I'll miss him when he's replaced by some generic announcer.
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