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  #61  
Old 02-28-2014, 10:16 AM
Harry Potter Harry Potter is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
This is a pretty cool video. It's the debut of the Sox uniform in the summer of 1990 with Jeff Torborg talking about it:

Sigh... the Diamond Sock looks so sharp
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  #62  
Old 02-28-2014, 01:04 PM
My_Sox_Summer My_Sox_Summer is offline
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That's a bad argument. We're talking about a kitschy early 80s Sox uniform that doesn't hold up. The Cardinals aren't wearing their late 70s/early 80s powder blue v-neck softball pullovers on a regular basis. If they were, that would be an appropriate analogy, but even those look better than the '83 Sox jersey.
It might not be the best argument, but it was an example of a team that is always tinkering with their uni's that is first-class. Many teams do it. Heck the Rays created a retro jersey to cash in on the money that is there.

So because you say it doesn't hold up it's true? I have two of them, many of my Sox friends have one. It is a pretty good selling jersey judging by the amount of them I see at the park. The new batterman hat is a top seller on the Sox site. There is a reason they kept them around, it makes cents and people like them.

Also, at SoxFest, the '83 stuff went quick. Not scientific evidence or anything, but it seems to be a pretty popular style.

I think it is a "love it" or "hate it" style for sure. People on both sides.
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  #63  
Old 02-28-2014, 01:28 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by My_Sox_Summer View Post
It might not be the best argument, but it was an example of a team that is always tinkering with their uni's that is first-class. Many teams do it. Heck the Rays created a retro jersey to cash in on the money that is there.

So because you say it doesn't hold up it's true? I have two of them, many of my Sox friends have one. It is a pretty good selling jersey judging by the amount of them I see at the park. The new batterman hat is a top seller on the Sox site. There is a reason they kept them around, it makes cents and people like them.

Also, at SoxFest, the '83 stuff went quick. Not scientific evidence or anything, but it seems to be a pretty popular style.

I think it is a "love it" or "hate it" style for sure. People on both sides.
Agreed. I'm not a big fan of these uniforms, but obviously a lot of fans do and the players love the pullovers. I'd rather the Sox had ugly uniforms and a perfect roster than perfect uniforms and an ugly roster.

It amazes me how many people seem to geniunely think the White Sox are just trying to spite their fans.
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  #64  
Old 02-28-2014, 01:42 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
That's a bad argument. We're talking about a kitschy early 80s Sox uniform that doesn't hold up. ... .
That is a good way to describe those uniforms. I wasn't living in the Chicago area at the time when they were rolled out and remember people considering it another ugly White Sox uniform. I only liked it because the Sox were my team and it was less ugly than the Veeck uniforms. it wasn't that bad in the context of the early 1980s in a way that the previous uniform did not.

Today the 1980s uniform only succeeds as nostalgia. It only does that with White Sox fans. And it wouldn't do that if it weren't for the 1983 season.
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  #65  
Old 02-28-2014, 02:45 PM
Milw Milw is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
Agreed. I'm not a big fan of these uniforms, but obviously a lot of fans do and the players love the pullovers. I'd rather the Sox had ugly uniforms and a perfect roster than perfect uniforms and an ugly roster.

It amazes me how many people seem to geniunely think the White Sox are just trying to spite their fans.
I don't think the Sox are TRYING to spite their fans. I just think they don't care and/or are simply bad at their jobs.
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  #66  
Old 02-28-2014, 02:58 PM
FoulTerritory FoulTerritory is offline
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I don't think the Sox are TRYING to spite their fans. I just think they don't care and/or are simply bad at their jobs.
I agree. I think they overvalue the short term (uni changes equal upticks in merchandise revenue) as opposed to the long term value and appeal of the franchise, which includes changing things if they suck but otherwise building a sense of tradition by keeping the good aesthetic features.

And there is a lot of talk about how many people love the "83 uniforms," but I think they are mostly enjoyed because they have been deployed sparingly and peak interest as a novelty. Using them once every few years is eccentric and fun but making them an official part of the uniform rotation is overdoing it and will decrease their "cool" factor.
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  #67  
Old 02-28-2014, 03:07 PM
My_Sox_Summer My_Sox_Summer is offline
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I don't think the Sox are TRYING to spite their fans. I just think they don't care and/or are simply bad at their jobs.
How many games did you go to last year? What would have made you go to more?
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  #68  
Old 02-28-2014, 03:24 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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I agree. I think they overvalue the short term (uni changes equal upticks in merchandise revenue) as opposed to the long term value and appeal of the franchise, which includes changing things if they suck but otherwise building a sense of tradition by keeping the good aesthetic features.

And there is a lot of talk about how many people love the "83 uniforms," but I think they are mostly enjoyed because they have been deployed sparingly and peak interest as a novelty. Using them once every few years is eccentric and fun but making them an official part of the uniform rotation is overdoing it and will decrease their "cool" factor.
I think they know what they are doing far more than you think. Just because it doesn't appeal to you or to me or to several on this board, doesn't mean it doesn't appeal to the majority of White Sox fans.
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  #69  
Old 02-28-2014, 03:33 PM
Milw Milw is offline
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How many games did you go to last year? What would have made you go to more?
What difference does it make? If I say none, then you'll say I'm not a real fan and thus my opinion doesn't matter. If I say 81, then you'll say I'm a hardcore fan and shouldn't care what the uniform situation is.

Yes, a winning team on the field is what ultimately matters. But if the "little things" don't matter at all, then why do we have a marketing department? Oh, right, because the little things add up, and while one little thing here and there doesn't make or break an organization, a boatload of little things is the difference between an organization that the fanbase is actually proud of versus an organization that leaves its diehards constantly banging their heads in frustration.

I don't love my wife any less when she wears a T-shirt and a hoodie out on a date with me, but that doesn't mean I can't want her to dress nicer. I don't love the White Sox any less when they make dumbass marketing moves, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't want them to not be dumbasses.
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  #70  
Old 02-28-2014, 03:37 PM
Milw Milw is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
I think they know what they are doing far more than you think. Just because it doesn't appeal to you or to me or to several on this board, doesn't mean it doesn't appeal to the majority of White Sox fans.
If you've spoken to a single Sox fan who thought the scoreboard intro change last year was an improvement, then you've found more such people than I have. That was a perfect example of a change for the sake of change. At least this uniform thing has some logic to it (we'll sell more jerseys!); the scoreboard intro change was just the marketing department once again trying (and failing) to prove they're smarter than all of us.
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  #71  
Old 02-28-2014, 04:41 PM
My_Sox_Summer My_Sox_Summer is offline
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Originally Posted by Milw View Post
What difference does it make? If I say none, then you'll say I'm not a real fan and thus my opinion doesn't matter. If I say 81, then you'll say I'm a hardcore fan and shouldn't care what the uniform situation is.

Yes, a winning team on the field is what ultimately matters. But if the "little things" don't matter at all, then why do we have a marketing department? Oh, right, because the little things add up, and while one little thing here and there doesn't make or break an organization, a boatload of little things is the difference between an organization that the fanbase is actually proud of versus an organization that leaves its diehards constantly banging their heads in frustration..
Actually you said this in reference to the marketing department - "I just think they don't care and/or are simply bad at their jobs." So I was asking how many games you went to. Mostly because if you do go to multiple games, they are doing their job, at least good enough for you. If you don't go to games, I asked what would make you go. What would be the biggest factor in you not going to games?

I get tired of hearing that the organization doesn't care. The amount of surveys they send out (free tickets they give out for doing them) shows me that they do care. They responded to the major one in 2013 by drastically lowering ticket prices, the major thing that fans said was the factor why they don't go to games.

I understand that this is a place for people to vent and whatnot, but the sweeping accusations that the organization doesn't care is just silly. People will always complain, just our nature, and I usually think that it just makes you passionate for the cause. But it seems to get out of hand from time to time.
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  #72  
Old 02-28-2014, 05:01 PM
Milw Milw is offline
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Originally Posted by My_Sox_Summer View Post
Actually you said this in reference to the marketing department - "I just think they don't care and/or are simply bad at their jobs." So I was asking how many games you went to. Mostly because if you do go to multiple games, they are doing their job, at least good enough for you. If you don't go to games, I asked what would make you go. What would be the biggest factor in you not going to games?

I get tired of hearing that the organization doesn't care. The amount of surveys they send out (free tickets they give out for doing them) shows me that they do care. They responded to the major one in 2013 by drastically lowering ticket prices, the major thing that fans said was the factor why they don't go to games.

I understand that this is a place for people to vent and whatnot, but the sweeping accusations that the organization doesn't care is just silly. People will always complain, just our nature, and I usually think that it just makes you passionate for the cause. But it seems to get out of hand from time to time.
I went to fewer games last year (5 or 6) than any season since I got my drivers license back in 1997. Yeah, that's due in large part to the terrible team on the field. But the marketing department exists, really, to make the terrible seasons tolerable enough to make people still want to come to games. So if that's the measure of success, then they failed.
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  #73  
Old 02-28-2014, 05:11 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Originally Posted by Milw View Post
If you've spoken to a single Sox fan who thought the scoreboard intro change last year was an improvement, then you've found more such people than I have. That was a perfect example of a change for the sake of change. At least this uniform thing has some logic to it (we'll sell more jerseys!); the scoreboard intro change was just the marketing department once again trying (and failing) to prove they're smarter than all of us.
But this is also an example of people complaining no matter what. One of the big arguments against the marketing seems to be that they don't do anything. Well, they did something. People (at least people here) didn't seem to like it, but people don't tend to like change. The old intro was great, sure, but should it really have been the intro for all time just because it was from 2005? Honestly, part of me thinks it should have been - but times change, and if the organization refuses to ever change anything because of "tradition" then eventually they just look old fashioned. Not every change will be successful, but that's not a reason not to try things.
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  #74  
Old 02-28-2014, 05:12 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Originally Posted by Milw View Post
I went to fewer games last year (5 or 6) than any season since I got my drivers license back in 1997. Yeah, that's due in large part to the terrible team on the field. But the marketing department exists, really, to make the terrible seasons tolerable enough to make people still want to come to games. So if that's the measure of success, then they failed.
What could the marketing department have possibly done last year to get anybody to come to any more games?
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  #75  
Old 02-28-2014, 05:22 PM
Milw Milw is offline
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What could the marketing department have possibly done last year to get anybody to come to any more games?
Here's a 27-page thread with a whole bunch of things they could have done. The short answer is not have terrible customer service.

It's easy to sell tickets when the team is doing well. The marketing department earns their money when the team is doing poorly. They didn't earn their money last year.
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