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  #166  
Old 01-10-2014, 09:55 AM
Dibbs Dibbs is offline
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Konerko doesn't deserve hall of fame.

Congrats Big Frank. See ya in Cooperstown. I wouldn't miss it.
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  #167  
Old 01-10-2014, 10:14 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Konerko doesn't deserve hall of fame.
Most *definitely* not.
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  #168  
Old 01-10-2014, 10:31 AM
gobears1987 gobears1987 is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
2 guys in the HOF that PK's stats compare with, Jim Rice and Duke Snider, neither has 500 HRS. The difference is those guys played in Boston and New York. I say PK has a very good shot but not on his first or second try.
I'm a huge PK fan, but I wouldn't make the case for him being the HoF. I strongly believe voting Jim Rice in was a mistake.

Duke Snider is someone I don't have a problem with being in though. He played in a different era and his numbers for that era justify it.
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  #169  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:09 AM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
2 guys in the HOF that PK's stats compare with, Jim Rice and Duke Snider, neither has 500 HRS. The difference is those guys played in Boston and New York. I say PK has a very good shot but not on his first or second try.
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Originally Posted by gobears1987 View Post
I'm a huge PK fan, but I wouldn't make the case for him being the HoF. I strongly believe voting Jim Rice in was a mistake.

Duke Snider is someone I don't have a problem with being in though. He played in a different era and his numbers for that era justify it.
The comparison between Duke Snider and Paul Konerko is pretty problematic...completely different class of player. For one, Snider was a center fielder. You can't just look at the counting stats when judging across eras and across positions. Snider isn't an inner-circle HOFer like his New York CF contemporaries, but he's in for good reason.
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  #170  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:53 AM
Steelrod Steelrod is offline
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How about Herm Schneider!
40 years with the same team, and tops in his field. Is there a spot for trainers in the HOF?
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  #171  
Old 01-10-2014, 12:21 PM
Moses_Scurry Moses_Scurry is online now
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How about Herm Schneider!
40 years with the same team, and tops in his field. Is there a spot for trainers in the HOF?
I second this. He's been there for so long, and I haven't heard anything about an approaching retirement, so he could end up with 50 years! I can't imagine there are any trainers in the HOF, but if there is to be one, Herm is more deserving than anyone.
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  #172  
Old 01-10-2014, 12:37 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephClone89 View Post
The comparison between Duke Snider and Paul Konerko is pretty problematic...completely different class of player. For one, Snider was a center fielder. You can't just look at the counting stats when judging across eras and across positions. Snider isn't an inner-circle HOFer like his New York CF contemporaries, but he's in for good reason.
Right, here are two comparisons that break down their positional and era differences...

Snider: 140 career OPS+, 70.6 career oWAR
Konerko: 119 career OPS+, 33.5 career oWAR

By JAWS, which is a metric that balances a players' career WAR and their peak WAR, Snider is the 7th greatest CF of all time, Konerko is the 81st greatest 1B of all time.
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  #173  
Old 01-10-2014, 02:06 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
2 guys in the HOF that PK's stats compare with, Jim Rice and Duke Snider, neither has 500 HRS. The difference is those guys played in Boston and New York. I say PK has a very good shot but not on his first or second try.
Only if you ignore their eras, even then PK falls short. Put into the context of the era, PK's not even in the ballpark with Duke Snider. 140 OPS+ vs 119. Not to mention Snyder was supposed to be a great CFer, from what I've read anyway.

edit: guess I should have read the entire thread before posting. To sum up: what seph said.
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  #174  
Old 01-10-2014, 09:11 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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PK might get 2-3 percent of the vote, but he was not as good as Mattingly or McGriff, and those guys aren't getting in.

Even if he gets 500 HRs, he has no chance. Never led the league in anything noteworthy, never even close to the best at his position. 500 HRs is not going to be a guarantee from now on; consider that a player like Dunn could get to 600 and is in no way a Hall of Famer.
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  #175  
Old 01-11-2014, 07:04 AM
winstonage winstonage is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
PK might get 2-3 percent of the vote, but he was not as good as Mattingly or McGriff, and those guys aren't getting in.

Even if he gets 500 HRs, he has no chance. Never led the league in anything noteworthy, never even close to the best at his position. 500 HRs is not going to be a guarantee from now on; consider that a player like Dunn could get to 600 and is in no way a Hall of Famer.
Konerko is in the hall of very good. A star, but not a super star.
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  #176  
Old 01-12-2014, 06:51 AM
Vernam Vernam is offline
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Default Utterly disgraceful Paul Sullivan article

Again, rather than give this crap its own thread, instead I'll add it to what should be a celebration of Frank's accomplishment. Sullivan takes a massive dump on the big guy at http://my.chicagotribune.com/#sectio.../p2p-78858824/. His pretense is that Frank should tell his detractors to kiss his ass, but the reality is that Sullivan has picked at some old wounds at exactly the wrong time. Sure, mention that Thomas had his detractors, but to base a whole feature on it in the Sunday paper is nothing but mean-spirited.

For more-complete context, during Frank's great run, Sullivan was among the many media clowns who reserved their adoration for the steroid freak and IMO borderline sociopath who racked up more than 600 homers across town. Now, rather than balance those scales, Sully takes this opportunity to dredge up a bunch of specious, juvenile bull**** that has nothing to do with what Thomas did on the field. I am ****ing furious after reading that piece today.
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  #177  
Old 01-12-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Vernam View Post
Again, rather than give this crap its own thread, instead I'll add it to what should be a celebration of Frank's accomplishment. Sullivan takes a massive dump on the big guy at http://my.chicagotribune.com/#sectio.../p2p-78858824/. His pretense is that Frank should tell his detractors to kiss his ass, but the reality is that Sullivan has picked at some old wounds at exactly the wrong time. Sure, mention that Thomas had his detractors, but to base a whole feature on it in the Sunday paper is nothing but mean-spirited.

For more-complete context, during Frank's great run, Sullivan was among the many media clowns who reserved their adoration for the steroid freak and IMO borderline sociopath who racked up more than 600 homers across town. Now, rather than balance those scales, Sully takes this opportunity to dredge up a bunch of specious, juvenile bull**** that has nothing to do with what Thomas did on the field. I am ****ing furious after reading that piece today.
Literally just read the hard copy five minutes ago with the rest of the morning paper. Before coming here, I thought to myself that the entire column seemed a tad bit inappropriate. Kudos to the guy for digging up Tony Phillips of all people. Glad I'm not alone in thinking it was a hack job.
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  #178  
Old 01-12-2014, 06:29 PM
Whitesox029 Whitesox029 is offline
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In case anyone hasn't seen it, there's a page on the Sox website dedicated to Frank's induction with some great videos. My favorite is the video of the first HR by a Sox player in New Comiskey in front of a full house vs. the Orioles to put the Sox ahead 6-5.
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  #179  
Old 01-12-2014, 06:53 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I didn't really see the piece in the Trib as a "hatchet job"- the stuff that went on for a few years there (wanting to renegotiate his long term contact, the "doctors note" incident, teammates (PK and Wells (who was WAY off base)) questioning him, the incident between him and Ventura in the dugout)- all of that stuff was also part of Frank's history and legacy in Chicago- along with the incredible offensive production.

As great as a career as Frank had- I've always thought it was a little tragic how it turned out- the injuries (tricep, foot and knee), the strike season that cut short what might have been one of the greatest single seasons in MLB history followed by the wreckage of 1995-1999 with mediocre managers like Bevington and Manuel, how deeply he was impacted by the loss of his father, and how he was overshadowed by scum like Sosa, McGwire and Bonds.

NONE of this is meant to be at all critical of Frank- he's human- and even with some of the b.s. that happened that was completely out of his control- he still achieved 1st ballot entry into the HoF- and I'm very happy to see HIM so happy at this recognition.
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  #180  
Old 01-12-2014, 08:39 PM
Vernam Vernam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I didn't really see the piece in the Trib as a "hatchet job"- the stuff that went on for a few years there (wanting to renegotiate his long term contact, the "doctors note" incident, teammates (PK and Wells (who was WAY off base)) questioning him, the incident between him and Ventura in the dugout)- all of that stuff was also part of Frank's history and legacy in Chicago- along with the incredible offensive production.

As great as a career as Frank had- I've always thought it was a little tragic how it turned out- the injuries (tricep, foot and knee), the strike season that cut short what might have been one of the greatest single seasons in MLB history followed by the wreckage of 1995-1999 with mediocre managers like Bevington and Manuel, how deeply he was impacted by the loss of his father, and how he was overshadowed by scum like Sosa, McGwire and Bonds.

NONE of this is meant to be at all critical of Frank- he's human- and even with some of the b.s. that happened that was completely out of his control- he still achieved 1st ballot entry into the HoF- and I'm very happy to see HIM so happy at this recognition.
All very true and well-stated, and I wouldn't say Sullivan should have ignored the controversies. But to have built his whole piece around it was lame at best and disrespectful at worst. Featuring "The Big Skirt" and other BS was inappropriate in a piece about the franchise's greatest offensive player, a first-ballot Hall of Famer. The photo caption referred to The Big Skirt.
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