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  #226  
Old 12-11-2013, 05:53 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Wow! Hawkins was a 19 year old playing in Advanced A ball and you're giving up? Also, he is not a "below average defender" nor a "near wash on the bases". Where are you getting this from?
20 SBs 11CS........11errors in the OF last year
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  #227  
Old 12-11-2013, 05:55 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
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Viciedo can't hit RHP

DeAza can't run or play the field at a more than AAA ball player....

Trade for a Left handed hitting LF'er, Let Viciedo play vs LHP...

Unless you can get DeAza for sub 2-3M. He's gone.
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  #228  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:06 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
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Adam Eaton some splits for our new CF/LF/ Lead off man

When batting 1st: .267/.327/.387

When playing LF: .309/.358/.488

When leading off the GAME: .294OB%
When leading off the INNNING: .358OB%

When playing CF: .509OPS

When ahead in the count: 0.953OPS
When behind in the count: .483OPS
^^^^ But pitchers cant just groove the 0-0 pitch because he hits .334 vs the first pitch

With men on base: .272/.333/.378

And, statistically he plays very well in innings 7-9 which is something we didnt see last year .265/.339/.367
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  #229  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:18 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by sunofgold View Post
2015, we will have an opening at DH. Maybe Viciedo moves into that spot or at least part of the time is DH. We don't necessarily have to trade Viciedo or De Aza. Could mean the end of the Jordan Dunks era. JR said Jordan was untradeable but I have this feeling that he just wasn't referring to John's brother. Sorry Mr. and Mrs. Danks.
I do not think I understand the majority of this post.
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  #230  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:21 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
No, judging it on something other than the pitches he throws would be ridiculous. Calling a guy like him anything but a 5 based on 2/3 of a season versus everything before it would be ridiculous. The guy has 5 stuff with the ability to be better if BOTH his command improves drastically and he gets a plus pitch (his first). Right now he relies on the screwball and lack of exposure. Exposure caught up to him later in the year. We traded high. That's a good thing. The chances he improves or even continues on at the level of production he had at the beginning of last year are not that good.
Right. From a fangraphs analysis:

"Santiago’s strength is that he can miss some bats. The rest of his reality is that he doesn’t throw enough strikes or generate a high number of grounders, and you can see where this is going — his peripherals don’t come close to matching his sub-4 ERA, and in cases like this we always side with the peripherals. As a starter, Santiago looks below-average, with limited room for improvement. There’s some chance he ends up a reliever, which he was in 2012. He’s a potential long-term player who’s not a real long-term asset."
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  #231  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:46 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Nice find, Kittle.
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  #232  
Old 12-11-2013, 07:50 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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All I know is since late July Hahn has basically traded Peavy/Santiago for Garcia/Eaton/Abreu- I'm very impressed with what he's done so far- excited to see what he does next-
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  #233  
Old 12-11-2013, 08:16 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSoxNation View Post
20 SBs 11CS........11errors in the OF last year
I would not consider that a "wash" on the bases. Hawkins is not a burner but still runs pretty well. The 11 errors are bad, but he also has decent range and a good arm. I'm going to open myself up to some "I told you so's" in 2014 and say that the error total was a fluke and not indicative of his defensive abilities.
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  #234  
Old 12-11-2013, 08:20 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
I would not consider that a "wash" on the bases. Hawkins is not a burner but still runs pretty well. The 11 errors are bad, but he also has decent range and a good arm. I'm going to open myself up to some "I told you so's" in 2014 and say that the error total was a fluke and not indicative of his defensive abilities.
Errors are worthless at evaluating defense. Manny Machado had more errors than Miggy at third last year.
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  #235  
Old 12-11-2013, 08:49 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by mzh View Post
Errors are worthless at evaluating defense.
Ehhhhhhh, but you shouldn't ignore them altogether. 11 errors in the outfield is pretty bad. Again, probably a fluke.
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  #236  
Old 12-11-2013, 09:37 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzh View Post
Errors are worthless at evaluating defense. Manny Machado had more errors than Miggy at third last year.

Errors are not worthless, but they don't tell the whole story. I would never say they are "worthless" though.
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  #237  
Old 12-11-2013, 09:50 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Errors are probative of defensive problems.
Lack of errors are not probative of defensive prowess.
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  #238  
Old 12-11-2013, 10:10 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is online now
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Errors are not worthless, but they don't tell the whole story. I would never say they are "worthless" though.
Exactly. I don't understand it when someone says this or that stat is worthless. They are all worth something and everything in context. 11 errors for an outfielder is not a good sign. Of course it can be mitigated by having a lot of range and an arm that gets results which to me includes outfield assists. I don't know enough about Hawkins to comment on those parts of his defensive game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Errors are probative of defensive problems.
Lack of errors are not probative of defensive prowess.
I agree with the first sentence. As for the second one, I will agree that having the highest fielding percentage at your position is certainly not even close to a guarantee that you are the best fielder.
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  #239  
Old 12-11-2013, 10:27 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
As for the second one, I will agree that having the highest fielding percentage at your position is certainly not even close to a guarantee that you are the best fielder.
Didnt Carlos (The Statue) Lee have a year with the Sox where he didnt make an error in left field?
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  #240  
Old 12-12-2013, 08:19 AM
34 Inch Stick 34 Inch Stick is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
I liked Santiago from the standpoint of trade value. I believed he had shown versatility both in starter and relief, in addition to being left handed. He was also easy on the payroll. I thought he was the sort of pitcher that didn't seem to be a big part of White Sox plans and had some potential to be blossom. Because he had shown he can pitch effectively in relief, although he lost his closer's job early in 2012, he could help a team even if he didn't blossom as a starter, with some teams challenged in finding lefty relievers.

I also like Easton. I think this is the sort of player I was hoping they could get for Santiago. It's just a matter of Eaton reaching expectations.

Some may be overestimating Santiago's worth, maybe because he didn't offend them so much in the 2013 season. Others may have been looking for getting players in trade that they have actually heard of or who have more impressive major league numbers while not being on their prospect radar. Last week, I would have thought Eaton would have had more trade value than Santiago, but it wasn't really a one-for-one even-up trade.

I find it interesting that neither Avisail Garcia nor Adam Eaton came to the White Sox in a straight deals with their former teams. The White Sox apparently got what they wanted even though the teams trading the players didn't want what the White Sox were offering. It's as if the Sox have a plan and are working creatively to pull it off.
Weren't the Sox the third wheel on both trades, added to the negotiations by both teams after straightforward talks broke down?
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