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  #121  
Old 12-05-2013, 08:08 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Who is he taking ABs from?

Unless he hits 66 home runs this year, he's not getting to 500. I'm quite sure that's not part of the agenda here.

Hey Paulie, can provide referrals for some guys who can help make this goal attainable. We won't be playing much baseball next season, so we have time on our hands to work with you.
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  #122  
Old 12-05-2013, 08:28 AM
FoulTerritory FoulTerritory is offline
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Originally Posted by aryzner View Post
Bold prediction time! Konerko will have something of a comeback season at age 38, hitting a respectable .280, with 25 HR and knocking in 90+.

Of course your prediction is not likely, but it's also not impossible. And if Konerko has numbers anywhere close to your "bold prediction," that means a lot more time for Dunn on the bench, which is not a bad thing.

This is a no-risk signing that adds depth and potentially gives less at-bats to Dunn. I don't see the issue.

And for those people who argue that Dunn has had a better career than Konerko, I would argue that Dunn is actually the quintessential example of the limits of saber-metrics (and I like sabermetrics!). The amount of times that Dunn is an easy out has a negative impact on the game that is beyond measure and, in my opinion, more than wipes out his walks and power. And do you ever notice that so many of Dunn's home runs come in non-critical situations. Believe it or not, I'd go so far to say that many on WSI actually overrate Dunn, if that is possible.
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  #123  
Old 12-05-2013, 08:34 AM
balke balke is offline
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Originally Posted by ZombieRob View Post
And last year Konerko was the 3rd worst ranked player in Baseball.
2011 Dunn was arguably the worst baseball player in the history of baseball.
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  #124  
Old 12-05-2013, 09:03 AM
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Not in favor of the signing at all. But now that it's done, I'll wait to see how the roster is constructed on Opening Day before drawing a final conclusion.
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  #125  
Old 12-05-2013, 09:32 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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If Konerko manages 21 HRs this year, he'll tie Big Frank as the all-time Sox HR leader.

I understand the confusion/concern about roster space when you have 3 guys (Abreu, Dunn, and PK) for 1B and DH. But, I don't expect the Sox to make a run at the playoffs anyway. So, it's not like I'm going to lose sleep over this by any means.
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  #126  
Old 12-05-2013, 09:54 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by FoulTerritory View Post
And for those people who argue that Dunn has had a better career than Konerko, I would argue that Dunn is actually the quintessential example of the limits of saber-metrics (and I like sabermetrics!). The amount of times that Dunn is an easy out has a negative impact on the game that is beyond measure and, in my opinion, more than wipes out his walks and power. And do you ever notice that so many of Dunn's home runs come in non-critical situations. Believe it or not, I'd go so far to say that many on WSI actually overrate Dunn, if that is possible.
Dunn has been a saber nightmare for the Sox. OWAR 2011 -2.4 2012 1.8 2013 1.0. DWAR 2011 -1.3 2012 -1.7 2013 -2.5. His career totals are OWAR 33.3 DWAR -27.7. By contrast Konerko's career totals are OWAR 33.5 DWAR -18.5.
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  #127  
Old 12-05-2013, 10:00 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by ZombieRob View Post
Bring Back Geoff Blum he hit a HR to win the series. Can we bring back Contreras to help with our young staff? Willie Harris available to help with the outfielders? Hell with I'll say it. Bring Back Rowand he can pinch hit and play outfield.
If it wasn't for the "opportunistic hitting" post on this thread, this would be by far the most silly one of all. Seriously, all of this ranting over bringing back Konerko is embarrassing.

Were we supposed to be competing for the World Series in 2014? If so, I'd "love" to read some of the one-year plans that some of you have. I'm sure that they're fascinating.
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  #128  
Old 12-05-2013, 10:59 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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  1. PK should be starting DH against all LH starters (60 games?)
  2. Should start around 30 games as Abreu adjusts to a much longer MLB/162 game season- so that's a total of 90 games/~300 ABs
  3. Dunn typically has a trip or 2 to the DL each year- when he pulls some fat- add another 10-20 starts for that
  4. There are no young prospects who would get those ABs
  5. I am sure behind the scenes in the offseason, throughout spring training and into the season- the Sox will be trying to move Dunn
  6. There are ZERO leaders in the clubhouse right now- so I think we can use a presence like PK
I don't see downside to this.

I'm alot more frustrated that we're bringing back Tyler Flowers for $950K than I am that we're bringing PK back for one more season-
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  #129  
Old 12-05-2013, 11:12 AM
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PK on the score now
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  #130  
Old 12-05-2013, 11:21 AM
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Just because the team is ****ty, that doesn't give them a pass to make ****ty decisions.
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  #131  
Old 12-05-2013, 01:38 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Dunn has been a saber nightmare for the Sox. OWAR 2011 -2.4 2012 1.8 2013 1.0. DWAR 2011 -1.3 2012 -1.7 2013 -2.5. His career totals are OWAR 33.3 DWAR -27.7. By contrast Konerko's career totals are OWAR 33.5 DWAR -18.5.
Dunn has put up roughly the same OWAR in 4 fewer years.
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Originally Posted by shoota
I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #132  
Old 12-05-2013, 02:01 PM
hawkjt hawkjt is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
  1. PK should be starting DH against all LH starters (60 games?)
  2. Should start around 30 games as Abreu adjusts to a much longer MLB/162 game season- so that's a total of 90 games/~300 ABs
  3. Dunn typically has a trip or 2 to the DL each year- when he pulls some fat- add another 10-20 starts for that
  4. There are no young prospects who would get those ABs
  5. I am sure behind the scenes in the offseason, throughout spring training and into the season- the Sox will be trying to move Dunn
  6. There are ZERO leaders in the clubhouse right now- so I think we can use a presence like PK
I don't see downside to this.

I'm alot more frustrated that we're bringing back Tyler Flowers for $950K than I am that we're bringing PK back for one more season-

Agree. PK is still one of the better hitters on this team in the clutch, when healthy. He is a professional hitter, who goes oppo when he needs to get that runner in from second base.

I agree that he might just have another decent year in him, and call me stupid, I like that he will have a proper goodbye next season.

As PK said on the Score....only guys who have faced a pitcher recently can tell other players what he truly features, at least tell them with credibility. Abreu will need guidance around 1st base also. PK knows the position.
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  #133  
Old 12-05-2013, 02:16 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Originally Posted by ZombieRob View Post
Whomever takes his place. The Agenda is all about promotion. Any real team's Agenda would use this as a great time to end an era of 9 years of futility and start bringing in something new. This is a lateral move hoping to make the fans happy and put a tear in Jerrys eye
Keeping Konerko doesn't mean they aren't starting to bring in something new. Are A. Garcia and Abreu not new? I believe they are. And the offseason isn't done. There might be more "new" pieces acquired before spring training begins.

Of course you had no answer for my question about who Konerko is taking ABs from. Because the only fair answer to that question is Dunn, and nobody cares if he loses ABs.

This whole idea that Konerko was brought back to placate fans is a cynical fallacy. Since when has Konerko's presence ever sold tickets? Maybe for a few games at the end of last year? He isn't even going to play everyday. The whole argument is more manufactured outrage.
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  #134  
Old 12-05-2013, 02:23 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
  1. PK should be starting DH against all LH starters (60 games?)
  2. Should start around 30 games as Abreu adjusts to a much longer MLB/162 game season- so that's a total of 90 games/~300 ABs
  3. Dunn typically has a trip or 2 to the DL each year- when he pulls some fat- add another 10-20 starts for that
  4. There are no young prospects who would get those ABs
  5. I am sure behind the scenes in the offseason, throughout spring training and into the season- the Sox will be trying to move Dunn
  6. There are ZERO leaders in the clubhouse right now- so I think we can use a presence like PK
I don't see downside to this.

I'm alot more frustrated that we're bringing back Tyler Flowers for $950K than I am that we're bringing PK back for one more season-
Yeah, I agree. The fact that the organization has yet to address its lackluster catching situation is the thing causing me the most frustration as a Sox fan at the moment. An upgrade at catcher is No. 1 on my offseason wish list.
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  #135  
Old 12-05-2013, 02:41 PM
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ChiSoxGal85 ChiSoxGal85 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
  1. PK should be starting DH against all LH starters (60 games?)
  2. Should start around 30 games as Abreu adjusts to a much longer MLB/162 game season- so that's a total of 90 games/~300 ABs
  3. Dunn typically has a trip or 2 to the DL each year- when he pulls some fat- add another 10-20 starts for that
  4. There are no young prospects who would get those ABs
  5. I am sure behind the scenes in the offseason, throughout spring training and into the season- the Sox will be trying to move Dunn
  6. There are ZERO leaders in the clubhouse right now- so I think we can use a presence like PK
I don't see downside to this.

I'm alot more frustrated that we're bringing back Tyler Flowers for $950K than I am that we're bringing PK back for one more season-
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Yeah, I agree. The fact that the organization has yet to address its lackluster catching situation is the thing causing me the most frustration as a Sox fan at the moment. An upgrade at catcher is No. 1 on my offseason wish list.
Yep...Welcome back, Paulie.

I'm still hoping Hahn has something up his sleeve for a catcher.
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