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  #61  
Old 11-21-2013, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Kinsler's already also on the wrong side of 30, has had way more injury issues, has had years where he's struggled with contact, and relies on speed as a large piece of his game. He'll be 32 in the middle of next season. Kinsler fits a need, sure, and he's a lot cheaper than Fielder. I just don't think Fielder is as sure a bet as Kinsler is to regress significantly over the next few seasons. At the end of Fielder's deal? Sure. But for the next few years, I think Fielder's the better bet to remain highly productive.
I see what you're saying about Prince/Kinsler straight up, but I think you are undervaluing the effect this will have on Cabrera to be able to play a much less physically demanding position defensively. Miggy had a 60-point BA drop, 70-point OBP drop, and 100-point SLG drop from April-June and July-October.
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  #62  
Old 11-21-2013, 11:51 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Fielder was .279/.362/.457 last year. If anyone on the White Sox had that line, we'd be toting him as a league MVP candidate.

60 points of OPS is a ton. In this case, it's the difference between being a 2 war player or a negative war player.
No, it really isn't.

If Dunn hit 50 points higher, we would say he's an MVP candidate? What are you smoking today?
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #63  
Old 11-21-2013, 12:30 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I see what you're saying about Prince/Kinsler straight up, but I think you are undervaluing the effect this will have on Cabrera to be able to play a much less physically demanding position defensively. Miggy had a 60-point BA drop, 70-point OBP drop, and 100-point SLG drop from April-June and July-October.
True, but I'm not sure trading Fielder was the answer either. There's a DH spot and another tradeable player there that makes more sense to move. Having both split DH/1B and getting more rest seemed the most logical.

Part of me is also biased because Fielder's been a real steady player his entire career and very healthy (despite what projections say should have occurred). On top of that, he's a mostly stand-up guy (especially compared to dirtbag Cabrera). But hey, anything that makes the Tigers worse...
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  #64  
Old 11-21-2013, 01:54 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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True, but I'm not sure trading Fielder was the answer either. There's a DH spot and another tradeable player there that makes more sense to move. Having both split DH/1B and getting more rest seemed the most logical.

Part of me is also biased because Fielder's been a real steady player his entire career and very healthy (despite what projections say should have occurred). On top of that, he's a mostly stand-up guy (especially compared to dirtbag Cabrera). But hey, anything that makes the Tigers worse...
Rangers Ballpark should also be a better home for a lefty slugger than Comerica, so at least the near future for Fielder looks better than it might have in Detroit.
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  #65  
Old 11-21-2013, 02:12 PM
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It basically depends on how you view Prince's career arc from here on out. He'll turn 30 years old during this upcoming season, that's historically pushing it for big men. If you think he will be able to buck historical trends and remain an elite bat for years, then yes, I agree, it's maybe not a great move. If he breaks down and the Tigers sold high, strengthening easily their weakest position on the field while simultaneously protecting their best overall player, then it is a great move.

Also probably depends on lot on how they use the approximately $100 million they just saved themselves.
When teams trade or sign players, the past is what analysts and fans look at, but the future is what teams are trading for. I don't think Fielder's stat line accurately reflects what he brought to the Tigers, but maybe the Tigers have a better idea of how his career will arc from here.

In the 2004 off-season, many couldn't understand the White Sox trading Lee for Podsednik. Maybe Fielder for Kinsler is similar. Still, since 2011, Fielder has done a better job of fulfilling his offensive promise than Kinsler has. The Tigers went to the World Series in 2012 and made it to the ALCS in 2013. It isn't like this is a team that can't put anything together, and I don't think they would have won the Central in 2012 or 2013 without Fielder. I'm not sure Cabrera will be the same hitter without Fielder hitting behind him. Cabrera hit well with Martinez behind him in 2011, but I don't think that next season Martinez will present the same protection that Fielder would have. (Any comparison between Fielder and Dunn showing they aren't much different is ridiculous, by the way.)

Maybe by March the Tigers will be able to put out a stronger lineup than they could in 2013. Maybe they won't have quite the lineup but will be stronger defensively. But in late November looking only at this single move, I'm surprised the Tigers seem to be changing the dynamics of their lineup so dramatically.
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  #66  
Old 11-21-2013, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
When teams trade or sign players, the past is what analysts and fans look at, but the future is what teams are trading for. I don't think Fielder's stat line accurately reflects what he brought to the Tigers, but maybe the Tigers have a better idea of how his career will arc from here.
Right but that's, of course, because the past is the best indicator of things to come in the future, especially when you're dealing with a player/players who have established records of performance over several seasons in the Majors. Of course, of course, OF COURSE, there will be variance, there will be surprises, but for the most part, guys are who they are.
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  #67  
Old 11-21-2013, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Rangers Ballpark should also be a better home for a lefty slugger than Comerica, so at least the near future for Fielder looks better than it might have in Detroit.
Oh I didn't even think of that, it's the other extreme. Fielder's gonna be a beast next year.
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  #68  
Old 11-21-2013, 03:21 PM
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Denny McLain hints the Tigers' motives for moving Prince aren't confined to just the baseball field...

http://deadspin.com/denny-mclain-say...lde-1469185897
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  #69  
Old 11-21-2013, 03:27 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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This McLain story isnt good if it implicates A. Garcia.
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  #70  
Old 11-21-2013, 03:34 PM
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Buster Olney (insider only) gives the deal to the Tigers http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/bust...post/_/id/3867
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  #71  
Old 11-21-2013, 04:02 PM
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This McLain story isnt good if it implicates A. Garcia.
Of course, your source is a convicted felon.
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  #72  
Old 11-21-2013, 04:36 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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This McLain story isnt good if it implicates A. Garcia.
The story also seems to point the finger at Fielder. If Garcia was the problem, why would they dump Fielder after Garcia was sent off? It reads to me like Fielder was/is the guy causing problems. Allegedly.
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  #73  
Old 11-21-2013, 04:49 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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The story also seems to point the finger at Fielder. If Garcia was the problem, why would they dump Fielder after Garcia was sent off? It reads to me like Fielder was/is the guy causing problems. Allegedly.
The rumors regarding Avi's involvement in Prince's "domestic situation" are nothing new, but nothing has even come close to substantiation. If true, however, Garcia was indeed the guy who deserved to be traded.
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  #74  
Old 11-21-2013, 04:57 PM
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Prince is the better player.
I realize that this allows Detroit to move Cabrera and to put Castellanos in the lineup. But their depth is gone and they lost a terrific hitter.
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  #75  
Old 11-21-2013, 05:09 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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Prince is the better player.
I realize that this allows Detroit to move Cabrera and to put Castellanos in the lineup. But their depth is gone and they lost a terrific hitter.
It's not as simple as that. Their infield defense got a LOT better, they've got more speed, and they've saved a lot of money.
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