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  #16  
Old 11-05-2013, 01:02 PM
thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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Well, if it works for football in New York and basketball in LA, why not?
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  #17  
Old 11-05-2013, 01:36 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Not that I agree with it, but people say this about Chicago too (that it can't support two teams).
It's different though. San Fran and Chicago have nearly identical population densities, but outside San Fran (which is three times smaller) those numbers drop precipitously. And, let's face it, if you live in San Fran, you aren't an A's fan. I honestly think it would work more fairly if the teams were in Oakland and San Jose. Having one team be the team of San Francisco really limits the remaining market. People living in Oakland or San Jose are not traveling to the other city consistently for baseball. If you have the teams there, the San Fran market would then be split north and south.

I know that's never going to happen because realistically San Fran is the big city. But that's why two teams won't work.
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  #18  
Old 11-05-2013, 01:41 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
It's different though. San Fran and Chicago have nearly identical population densities, but outside San Fran (which is three times smaller) those numbers drop precipitously. And, let's face it, if you live in San Fran, you aren't an A's fan. I honestly think it would work more fairly if the teams were in Oakland and San Jose. Having one team be the team of San Francisco really limits the remaining market. People living in Oakland or San Jose are not traveling to the other city consistently for baseball. If you have the teams there, the San Fran market would then be split north and south.

I know that's never going to happen because realistically San Fran is the big city. But that's why two teams won't work.
Traveling between Oakland and San Francisco is much less a hassle, and a much shorter distance, than traveling between either city and San Jose. A move to San Jose would probably be a good one for the A's. There is plenty enough of a population base to support them there. Santa Clara County has 1.7 million people alone and is one of the wealthiest counties in the country.
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  #19  
Old 11-05-2013, 01:48 PM
Moses_Scurry Moses_Scurry is offline
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Maybe my geography is off or maybe things have changed since I last went to the bay area about 10 years ago, but isn't Oakland pretty much a dump? Couldn't a comparison be made to the cubs and Sox general areas back in the era of Wrigleyville being party central and the Cell being next to the projects? The A's probably have a pretty decent following, but the people just don't want to go to Oakland. Maybe if they played in a nicer area, more of their fans would show.
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  #20  
Old 11-05-2013, 02:14 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
It's different though. San Fran and Chicago have nearly identical population densities, but outside San Fran (which is three times smaller) those numbers drop precipitously. And, let's face it, if you live in San Fran, you aren't an A's fan. I honestly think it would work more fairly if the teams were in Oakland and San Jose. Having one team be the team of San Francisco really limits the remaining market. People living in Oakland or San Jose are not traveling to the other city consistently for baseball. If you have the teams there, the San Fran market would then be split north and south.

I know that's never going to happen because realistically San Fran is the big city. But that's why two teams won't work.

You obviously don't spend much time in the Bay Area.
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  #21  
Old 11-05-2013, 02:19 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
You obviously don't spend much time in the Bay Area.
Other than living there for a year? No.
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  #22  
Old 11-05-2013, 02:23 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Traveling between Oakland and San Francisco is much less a hassle, and a much shorter distance, than traveling between either city and San Jose. A move to San Jose would probably be a good one for the A's. There is plenty enough of a population base to support them there. Santa Clara County has 1.7 million people alone and is one of the wealthiest counties in the country.
I realize Oakland and San Fran is no problem, but South San Francisco is going to support the Giants even if there's a team in San Jose.

And while Santa Clara County has a lot of people, it's also both huge and terrible to travel. Unless you live off the 101, it's going to take you hours to get to San Jose.
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  #23  
Old 11-05-2013, 02:51 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I realize Oakland and San Fran is no problem, but South San Francisco is going to support the Giants even if there's a team in San Jose.

And while Santa Clara County has a lot of people, it's also both huge and terrible to travel. Unless you live off the 101, it's going to take you hours to get to San Jose.
It doesn't take hours to get to San Jose from the rest of the county (perhaps it does from Gilroy or Casa de Fruta, but they're the A's not the Garlics). They wouldn't need support from South SF, obviously that's probably going to be mostly Giants fans and is still close to the city.
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  #24  
Old 11-05-2013, 04:51 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Other than living there for a year? No.
Did you happen to notice that it's only a 20-minute BART ride from the Embarcadero in San Francisco to the coliseum in Oakland?
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  #25  
Old 11-05-2013, 05:26 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Did you happen to notice that it's only a 20-minute BART ride from the Embarcadero in San Francisco to the coliseum in Oakland?
I think you are misunderstanding my argument. Yes, I know San Fran and Oakland are really close and easily accessible. But that's not even 1.5 million people between the two stadiums available by transit.
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  #26  
Old 11-05-2013, 05:27 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
It doesn't take hours to get to San Jose from the rest of the county (perhaps it does from Gilroy or Casa de Fruta, but they're the A's not the Garlics). They wouldn't need support from South SF, obviously that's probably going to be mostly Giants fans and is still close to the city.
Eh...the roads are pretty terrible and so is the traffic. Unless you live in San Jose or immediate outlying communities, it would be an absolute pain to be a season ticket holder.

Also, in regards to population...it's not like it's the midwest. St. Louis survives with lower numbers because everyone that lives in St. Louis is a Cards fan, and an avid one at that. That culture isn't really an option anywhere else.
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  #27  
Old 11-05-2013, 05:46 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I think you are misunderstanding my argument. Yes, I know San Fran and Oakland are really close and easily accessible. But that's not even 1.5 million people between the two stadiums available by transit.
Going by the cities alone on population is a rather dumb way to look at it. It'd be like wondering how the Nats can survive with DC only having 500,000 people, or the Braves on Atlanta's 400,000.
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  #28  
Old 11-05-2013, 05:56 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Going by the cities alone on population is a rather dumb way to look at it. It'd be like wondering how the Nats can survive with DC only having 500,000 people, or the Braves on Atlanta's 400,000.
You can't make that comparison though, because the demographics are completely different. People in California, frankly, have a lot of other options than spending time traveling to the a ballpark.

I don't think the A's aren't better off in San Jose...I just don't think the situation is that much better.
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  #29  
Old 11-05-2013, 06:42 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
You can't make that comparison though, because the demographics are completely different. People in California, frankly, have a lot of other options than spending time traveling to the a ballpark.

I don't think the A's aren't better off in San Jose...I just don't think the situation is that much better.
I have no idea what that first sentence means.

As for the second, the Dodgers were #1 in attendance in 2013. The Giants were #3. The Angels were #7. The Padres had a bad team and still drew 26,000 fans per game (nearly 400,000 more in total than the White Sox). So, the notion that people in California don't travel to ballparks doesn't seem to hold water.

At the gate, only Oakland struggled, and they have obvious stadium issues. I see no reason why that wouldn't improve in a more heavily populated and perhaps wealthier (and surely more and closer connection to corporate wealth, with less competition with the Giants) area in San Jose. To say nothing of being in a new ballpark in any location.
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  #30  
Old 11-05-2013, 10:03 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
I have no idea what that first sentence means.

As for the second, the Dodgers were #1 in attendance in 2013. The Giants were #3. The Angels were #7. The Padres had a bad team and still drew 26,000 fans per game (nearly 400,000 more in total than the White Sox). So, the notion that people in California don't travel to ballparks doesn't seem to hold water.

At the gate, only Oakland struggled, and they have obvious stadium issues. I see no reason why that wouldn't improve in a more heavily populated and perhaps wealthier (and surely more and closer connection to corporate wealth, with less competition with the Giants) area in San Jose. To say nothing of being in a new ballpark in any location.
I really don't see the A's moving to San Jose. I believe voters would have to approve a stadium before it could be built, although I may have missed such approval being granted. If it was waived, I missed that. I think voters in Santa Clara County voted at least twice on a proposed Giants stadium and rejected the proposal before the Giants ended up with their new park in San Francisco. The A's want to move to San Jose and San Jose city leaders and business leaders want the A's to move to San Jose, but the A's already would have moved to Fremont if they hadn't been rejected by the city of Fremont. San Jose seems more of an uphill struggle.

There is no question the A's play in a truly awful venue for major league baseball. Still, Oakland, is under some pressure, at risk of losing its MLB, NFL and NBA teams that define it. The Town could step up and offer help. I don't think A's ownership is interested, but it could be enough to hurt the A's chances of convincing baseball to allow the A's to relocate.

But even with the A's playing in such an awful place (really, it has to be experienced to be appreciated), California does an excellent job of supporting five major league teams despite having better things to do.
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