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  #241  
Old 10-21-2013, 07:32 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
I just worry about spending big money on a catcher who is on the wrong side of 30.
Yeah, the Sox should learn a lesson from signing Carlton Fisk. He was an often injured "wrong side of 30" catcher, and only played with the team more than 10 seasons.

You don't want that.
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  #242  
Old 10-21-2013, 08:05 AM
ZombieRob ZombieRob is offline
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Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
Going a little off-topic, I remember earlier in this thread that people were talking about the declining production of Ramirez. While this is indisputable (just look at the HR totals), how do you explain the plethora of doubles he hit in 2013? 39 doubles is a career high for him by a wide margin. Did it lead AL SS? He had the highest amount of hits in his career (albeit, with the highest amount of ABs as well), and I'm not too worried with the low RBIs last season since barely anyone could get on base for him to knock in in the first place. Third lowest K total, swiped 30 bags (a career high)

I guess what I'm getting at is that, at least in the case of Ramirez, I think that he's still got stuff left in the tank. Hopefully, with a better lineup to play with, Ramirez's production will increase.

I think people refer to his glove in decline. I'm with you, I just don't want him to bat in the 2 slot.
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  #243  
Old 10-21-2013, 08:19 AM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
Now that Abreu is signed, all Hahn has to do is sign Cano, Ellsbury and McCann and the White Sox will be back in the Playoffs in 2014. If Hahn signs those 3 players I will take my chances against anybody in the league next season.
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  #244  
Old 10-21-2013, 09:45 AM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is online now
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
Yeah, the Sox should learn a lesson from signing Carlton Fisk. He was an often injured "wrong side of 30" catcher, and only played with the team more than 10 seasons.

You don't want that.
You're going to point to one of the only times in history a move like that has paid off to justify what is, 999 out of 1,000 times, a stupid personnel decision?
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  #245  
Old 10-21-2013, 11:12 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
You're going to point to one of the only times in history a move like that has paid off to justify what is, 999 out of 1,000 times, a stupid personnel decision?
Closer to 9 out of 10 times. Maybe on the other side of 9 out of 10 times.

Most, as in more than 5 out of 10, free agent signings of players from other major league organizations don't work out, though.
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  #246  
Old 10-21-2013, 11:34 AM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Closer to 9 out of 10 times. Maybe on the other side of 9 out of 10 times.

Most, as in more than 5 out of 10, free agent signings of players from other major league organizations don't work out, though.
Largely due to the fact that you're always overpaying--specifically, paying for "past performance" for someone already past their prime.
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  #247  
Old 10-21-2013, 11:51 AM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is online now
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Closer to 9 out of 10 times. Maybe on the other side of 9 out of 10 times.

Most, as in more than 5 out of 10, free agent signings of players from other major league organizations don't work out, though.
He pointed specifically to Carlton Fisk, a guy who went on to play 10+ awesome years for the Sox. How often does an over 30 player get signed, and go on to have another 10+ years of good to great baseball, and a catcher, the most physically demanding position in the game, to boot?

Look, I get his point that you can't simply look at a guy, say "Over 30, no thanks", but you can't point to Carlton freaking Fisk as if that one instance nullifies every other misguided signing in history. I mean, how many people wish the Sox had said "Over 30, no thanks" to Adam Dunn right now?
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  #248  
Old 10-21-2013, 02:37 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
He pointed specifically to Carlton Fisk, a guy who went on to play 10+ awesome years for the Sox. How often does an over 30 player get signed, and go on to have another 10+ years of good to great baseball, and a catcher, the most physically demanding position in the game, to boot?

Look, I get his point that you can't simply look at a guy, say "Over 30, no thanks", but you can't point to Carlton freaking Fisk as if that one instance nullifies every other misguided signing in history. I mean, how many people wish the Sox had said "Over 30, no thanks" to Adam Dunn right now?
Jermaine Dye had a history of injuries, and he was over 30 when the Sox signed him, but he wasn't a catcher. Sandy Alomar Jr. was a catcher with injuries in his past who the Sox signed after 30. He wasn't a disastrous signing, although the Sox won the World Series the season after he was replaced by a younger free agent catcher with no injury history to speak of.

Most free agent signings are misguided because of the nature of the free-agent market. The free-agent gamble doesn't favor the team signing free agents. There were a few people who believe the deal for Dunn would be a disaster the day it was announced, although most Sox fans celebrated. Now it seems fans are more skeptical. Although they want the Sox to sign free agents to improve the team, the way the Dunn signing worked out, many will greet any Sox signing with a large amount of pessimism.
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  #249  
Old 10-21-2013, 05:06 PM
Noneck Noneck is online now
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Now it seems fans are more skeptical. Although they want the Sox to sign free agents to improve the team, the way the Dunn signing worked out, many will greet any Sox signing with a large amount of pessimism.
FAs are a means to improve a club without giving up talent in return. The problem I have with the Sox and FAs is I know the Sox wont write off a FA if hes a bust. A long term FA bust will hamstring the Sox for years. Look at Dunn in the coming year, rather than writing him off, they will keep him on the team which will inhibit the team from rebuilding to a point. That is only 15M which is spit in the ocean for this club. A long term FA bust is a scarey proposition.
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  #250  
Old 10-21-2013, 05:14 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
FAs are a means to improve a club without giving up talent in return. The problem I have with the Sox and FAs is I know the Sox wont write off a FA if hes a bust. A long term FA bust will hamstring the Sox for years. Look at Dunn in the coming year, rather than writing him off, they will keep him on the team which will inhibit the team from rebuilding to a point. That is only 15M which is spit in the ocean for this club. A long term FA bust is a scarey proposition.
Do baseball teams ever really "write off" high priced FA acquisitions? This isn't the NFL where players have guaranteed and non-guaranteed money.
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  #251  
Old 10-21-2013, 05:27 PM
Noneck Noneck is online now
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Do baseball teams ever really "write off" high priced FA acquisitions? This isn't the NFL where players have guaranteed and non-guaranteed money.

Well they could be benched if they have bench value, which the Sox never do, they could be traded with the Sox picking up a large portion of salary, they dont do that either or they could be traded for a player in a similar situation on another club. A change in scenery sometimes helps. I know what you are saying and thats why long term contracts scare me and even more so when you go out of your way to do it. Resigning a player that has proved his worth to the club isnt as scarey to me. Finally, salt and peppering Dunns last year is the prudent thing to do with the way this club is going.
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  #252  
Old 10-21-2013, 09:20 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Well they could be benched if they have bench value, which the Sox never do, they could be traded with the Sox picking up a large portion of salary, they dont do that either or they could be traded for a player in a similar situation on another club. A change in scenery sometimes helps. I know what you are saying and thats why long term contracts scare me and even more so when you go out of your way to do it. Resigning a player that has proved his worth to the club isnt as scarey to me. Finally, salt and peppering Dunns last year is the prudent thing to do with the way this club is going.
Well, at least Dunn only has one year left. If his numbers are similar to 2013, he'll be traded in the middle of 2014 to a team looking for some pop.
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  #253  
Old 10-21-2013, 10:07 PM
getonbckthr getonbckthr is offline
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A deal that I truly think would benefit both teams would be Dunn to Texas for Kinsler.
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  #254  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:33 AM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is online now
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Originally Posted by getonbckthr View Post
A deal that I truly think would benefit both teams would be Dunn to Texas for Kinsler.
How does that help Texas?
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  #255  
Old 10-22-2013, 08:09 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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How does that help Texas?
They get a Texas native who will play his heart out.
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