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  #76  
Old 10-09-2013, 08:45 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Really. I was speaking as someone who has supervised reporters. Unlike the Hall of Fame, the MVP vote is supposed to go to knowlegable working media who are supposed to be objective. If I supervised a reporter who voted for Trout ahead of Cabrera, unless I'm in SoCal where there may be a sense of civic pride as justification, I would be concerned that reporter wasn't taking his job seriously.
Haw haw haw haw, it never fails. Alternatively, anyone who takes team accomplishments into consideration for an award entitled MOST VALUABLE PLAYER, I would be concerned with their ability to read and comprehend the English language.
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  #77  
Old 10-09-2013, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
You do realize that the reporter who votes for Trout might not give a damn about WAR?
Miguel Cabrera had a better season than Mike Trout. That is even true statistically unless you work out a long contrived mathematical formula that tells you otherwise. Cabrera had that better season while leading his team to a divisional championship. This was pretty much true last year. It isn't just that Cabrera played on a winning team. Cabrera was a big reason the Tigers were a winning team. That's what made him valuable.

I strongly dislike Cabrera. I was thoroughly entertained a couple of times this season when he was tossed from games. But if I had a vote for AL MVP vote, I wouldn't be so irresponsible as to not vote for Cabrera because I didn't like him or his team. I'm not going to work out hypotheticals for players I like better than Cabrera and imagine their heroics had they been playing in games that mattered to their teams. I'm not going to be so geeked about how much fun it is to watch Trout or how Trout does statistically for a team whose non-contending position in the standings is unaffected by his play while Cabrera didn't just have the league's best batting average, but best on-base percentage and slugging percentage while hitting 63 percent more home runs and driving in 41 percent more runs than Trout. Without Cabrera's heroics on the Tigers, the Indians might have had a chance to play more than one game in the postseason.

I imagine there are people who don't care about WAR who could put Trout over Cabrera on their ballots, but I wouldn't consider them responsible voters. And it would upset me if they cheapened the award by voting for Trout this season.

They didn't, though.
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  #78  
Old 10-09-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Miguel Cabrera had a better season than Mike Trout. That is even true statistically unless you work out a long contrived mathematical formula that tells you otherwise. Cabrera had that better season while leading his team to a divisional championship. This was pretty much true last year. It isn't just that Cabrera played on a winning team. Cabrera was a big reason the Tigers were a winning team. That's what made him valuable.

I strongly dislike Cabrera. I was thoroughly entertained a couple of times this season when he was tossed from games. But if I had a vote for AL MVP vote, I wouldn't be so irresponsible as to not vote for Cabrera because I didn't like him or his team. I'm not going to work out hypotheticals for players I like better than Cabrera and imagine their heroics had they been playing in games that mattered to their teams. I'm not going to be so geeked about how much fun it is to watch Trout or how Trout does statistically for a team whose non-contending position in the standings is unaffected by his play while Cabrera didn't just have the league's best batting average, but best on-base percentage and slugging percentage while hitting 63 percent more home runs and driving in 41 percent more runs than Trout. Without Cabrera's heroics on the Tigers, the Indians might have had a chance to play more than one game in the postseason.

I imagine there are people who don't care about WAR who could put Trout over Cabrera on their ballots, but I wouldn't consider them responsible voters. And it would upset me if they cheapened the award by voting for Trout this season.

They didn't, though.
No he did not and no he was not. The point of this thread and of Keri's column is that WAR is not needed to recognize that Trout was the better player last year and this year, despite your insistence on assigning that argument to him and the posters in this thread who agree with Keri. The very reason I think Keri's column is noteworthy is that he is a proponent of advanced metrics but he does not think they are needed in this case to choose Trout as MVP over Cabrera. He also prominently notes in the column that the official criteria for MVP need not take into account a player's team's success.

So the gist of what Keri is saying is that whether or not you think WAR is a relevant tool to evaluate MVP candidates is irrelevant because Trout is more worthy of being awarded MVP, this season and last, based on traditional scouting. I agree with him and that is why I started the thread in the first place. It's not about stats. It's about watching the two players play and deciding that Trout clearly had a better season last season and this one as well. If you had Trout and Cabrera switch teams before this season started and each produced the same as he actually did this season, Detroit still would have won the AL Central (probably by 2-3 more games) and LAAAAA still would have missed the playoffs.
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