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  #16  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:22 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by The Immigrant View Post
At least Olivo is solid behind the plate. He would still be an improvement over Flowers even if he failed to out-hit him.
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  #17  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:31 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Foulke You View Post
.277 8HRs 37 RBI and 18 doubles so far this season is not shabby production by any means. He also put together a pretty decent 2012 and if his 2013 holds the course, it will be improved on what he did last year. It isn't gaudy numbers but certainly better than anything we are getting in our lineup right now. I also like the fact that he is a switch hitter which is another thing to factor into his value as a player. He also is a career .292 hitter with RISP and lord knows the Sox could use hitters like that. If he could be had at a reasonable contract, I would definitely be interested in Morales as a stopgap 1B or DH.
It's his worse season in a string of three straight years of regression. Stopgap is fine, but he probably isn't signing a one year deal.

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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Ridiculous. Calling a player, "garbage" without having seen him play nor giving him a chance at the major league level is just that, "garbage".
He hasn't made adjustments to his swing. I'm not the end all be all by any means, but the book on Phlegy's swing has always been that his bat speed was suspect, and getting enough speed caused his swing to be overly level (and therefore he would never get enough lift to show power at the major league level). Nothing in his approach has changed this year. Yeah, he's gotten different results this year, but what he's doing isn't sustainable, especially against superior pitching.

Garbage is being too harsh. But if Phegly becomes a serviceable backup catcher for five years, that should be considered a success.

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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
No offense, but that makes no sense. How can you say players who seemingly can't produce can't be replaced? Rios is the only decent hitter in the lineup, but you are predicting that Viciedo, Dunn and whoever will replace Konerko will hit well enough to bump Rios out of the middle of the order?! You are the most optimistic pessismist I've ever seen.

I recall people saying in 2004, how can the Sox offense replace the production of Ordonez and Lee? Except in that case those were two guys who were damn fine hitters...and they were still wrong.

I think I phrased it wrong. When I say replace the 3, 4, and 5 spots I mean with people that should be in those spots.

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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
That would still make him far and away the second best hitter on this team.
I'm not sure you wouldn't be the second best hitter on this team.
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  #18  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:35 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post


I think I phrased it wrong. When I say replace the 3, 4, and 5 spots I mean with people that should be in those spots.
You must have. You responded to the suggestion that Dunn, Konerko and Viciedo should be replaced by claiming you can't replace your 3,4 and 5 guys in one offseason.
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  #19  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:36 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
You must have. You responded to the suggestion that Dunn, Konerko and Viciedo should be replaced by claiming you can't replace your 3,4 and 5 guys in one offseason.
Gotcha. I mean, we can't get good 3, 4, and 5 guys in one off-season. I was trying to make the point that improving is something that will take many many years.
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  #20  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:36 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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I'm not sure you wouldn't be the second best hitter on this team.
I definitely would be. I don't like money, fun or travel, so I just comment on WSI instead.
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  #21  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:38 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Gotcha. I mean, we can't get good 3, 4, and 5 guys in one off-season. I was trying to make the point that improving is something that will take many many years.
At this point, we don't need good. We need better than crap. You're probably right that it will take some time to turn this team around, though. Still, if we signed someone like Choo, added a complementary bat such as Morales and managed to trade our way to another decent hitter I'd feel much better about watching some Sox baseball next year.
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  #22  
Old 06-19-2013, 02:19 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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I'm not deluded into thinking any Sox player short of Sale would get us a top-flight future All-Star in return.

If we want a top flight 3-4-5 hitter, regardless of position, we are going to have to draft or sign him as an amateur, and develop him.

I'm more interested in solid position player prospects who can field their position well, play rock-solid fundamentals with the glove and the bat, and hit at a league-average level for their position. Guys who can be the next Ivan Calderon, Darrin Jackson, Lance Johnson, or Ron Karkovice.

I'd love to get a cornerstone, but that's not realistic with what we have to offer. I'll be happy to get a couple building blocks, let them develop and improve together, establish an identity as a "pitching, defense and fundamentals team," and then draft our next Frank Thomas or sign our next Magglio Ordonez.
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  #23  
Old 06-19-2013, 03:13 PM
cws05champ cws05champ is offline
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Here's my list:

Konerko to the Orioles for Jonathon Schoop

Alexei Ramirez and Jesse Crain to St. Louis for Matt Adams and Carlos Martinez

Matt Thornton & Charlie Leesman to Atlanta for Sean Gilmartin

Alex Rios to Texas for Mike Olt & Cody Buckell
or
Alex Rios to NY Yankees for Gary Sanchez, Tyler Austin

If any or all of this happened I would be thrilled.....
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  #24  
Old 06-19-2013, 03:28 PM
Bucky F. Dent Bucky F. Dent is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
The Orioles need starting pitching badly. If Peavy comes back before the deadline (doubtful but possible), we might be able to get an injured Dylan Bundy, or if we're lucky a Kevin Gausman (Peavy would need to be back early and pitching lights out).

Unless we're willing to trade a young stud (like Sale or Reed), there really isn't an obvious match to a team with prospects worth mentioning. At least not yet. Our only other chip (Rios) is more expensive than guys who are likely to be out there at the deadline, which hurts our chances of dealing him for anything but pennies on the dollar.
Crain and perhaps Thornton (because he's a lefty) might generate a small amount of interest.
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  #25  
Old 06-19-2013, 03:43 PM
cards press box cards press box is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
The Mets are 27-40, 12.5 games out of first. They're not trading their marquee prospects for an aging outfielder due a lot of money when they're not going to contend in the timeframe they'd have him.
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I believe this to be dead on.
I see your point. Nonetheless, Bill Madden of the New York Daily News wrote this column a few weeks ago arguing that the Mets should take a run at acquiring Rios with an eye toward contending in 2014 and 2015.
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  #26  
Old 06-19-2013, 04:07 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cws05champ View Post
Here's my list:

Konerko to the Orioles for Jonathon Schoop

Alexei Ramirez and Jesse Crain to St. Louis for Matt Adams and Carlos Martinez

Matt Thornton & Charlie Leesman to Atlanta for Sean Gilmartin

Alex Rios to Texas for Mike Olt & Cody Buckell
or
Alex Rios to NY Yankees for Gary Sanchez, Tyler Austin

If any or all of this happened I would be thrilled.....

Konerko doesnt have any worth and Ramirez has negative worth.
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  #27  
Old 06-19-2013, 04:12 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Crawford and Ethier are no longer players you build around. Kemp might still be, but he would cost 2 more marquee prospects than we have. And he's probably not worth it.
Ethier is junk.
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  #28  
Old 06-19-2013, 04:50 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Bucky F. Dent View Post
Crain and perhaps Thornton (because he's a lefty) might generate a small amount of interest.
Small is the key word here. With their age and contract situations (basically two month rentals), we'd be LUCKY to get a B level prospect. More likely, we'd just dump their salary for a guy we'll release at the end of the year.
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  #29  
Old 06-20-2013, 03:29 AM
cards press box cards press box is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Small is the key word here. With their age and contract situations (basically two month rentals), we'd be LUCKY to get a B level prospect. More likely, we'd just dump their salary for a guy we'll release at the end of the year.
I disagree. Some posters have suggested that the Red Sox and Tigers would have interest in Crain. A number of National League teams, such as the Cardinals and Reds, will too. Crain might be the best short reliever on the market, particularly for a team like St. Louis that doesn't want to replace their closer but wants instead to bolster the back end of the bullpen.

Thornton has some value for certain teams, as well. Take Atlanta, for example. The Braves have lost their two lefties in the bullpen, Venters and O'Flaherty, to serious injuries. They need a lefty reliever badly. Thornton may not be what he was a couple of years ago but he would help them.

If Rick Hahn does this right, the Sox should be able to bring a lot of young talent back within the next two months.
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  #30  
Old 06-20-2013, 09:30 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by cards press box View Post
I disagree. Some posters have suggested that the Red Sox and Tigers would have interest in Crain. A number of National League teams, such as the Cardinals and Reds, will too. Crain might be the best short reliever on the market, particularly for a team like St. Louis that doesn't want to replace their closer but wants instead to bolster the back end of the bullpen.

Thornton has some value for certain teams, as well. Take Atlanta, for example. The Braves have lost their two lefties in the bullpen, Venters and O'Flaherty, to serious injuries. They need a lefty reliever badly. Thornton may not be what he was a couple of years ago but he would help them.

If Rick Hahn does this right, the Sox should be able to bring a lot of young talent back within the next two months.
Teams are not going to pay a high price for Crain, especially when there's guys like Jose Veras available who have a very cheap option year next year and have already shown they can close. Veras won't get a high price. Crain certainly isn't. The days of rental relievers fetching value have been over for a half decade. The only reliever on our roster with high value is Reed.
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