*Official* 6-16 We aren't anyone's daddy; HOU 5 SOX 4 Postgamer

[Tragg]

Originally Posted by Crestani

Sale, Reed & Jones, Santiago & Quintana are going nowhere..!!

I understand.
The problem is that by the time we get any good, they'll be up for free agency. Gotta give to get.

[DumpJerry]

Originally Posted by HaroMaster87

They owe alexei another 23 mil still? Ouch...that's a no good. He's awful...

Here are the details, pet Cot's:

• 12:$5M, 13:$7M, 14:$9.5M, 15:$10M, 16:$10M club option ($1M buyout)

• 4 years/$4.75M (2008-11)

[SOXSINCE'70]

White Sox baseball:

[Lip Man 1]

The team sucks. Period. End of discussion.

That is all.

Lip

[SCCWS]

Originally Posted by Crestani

Sale, Reed & Jones, Santiago & Quintana are going nowhere..!!

On this team, they are already there.

[ZombieRob]

Originally Posted by Tragg

Players with high value:
Peavy (if he would be healthy)
Sale
Reed
Rios
Santiago
Crane
Quintana
Jones to a lesser extent

I like Santiago because of his high strikeout numbers. He just need to improve command. Hopefully the Sox don't assign him middle-reliever value, which is where they often use him.

That's sad that Konerko isn't in that group.

[BainesHOF]

Flowers was funny yet again. He allowed his throwing hand to be hit again by a foul tip. The guy isn't even smart enough to protect himself physically.

If Thornton wasn't brought into a close game, the Sox probably win. For the umpteenth time, Thornton should never pitch when the game is on the line.

Once again, De Aza led off the game with a strikeout and then walked back to the dugout shaking his head. Enough of this guy already.

Viciedo has no business being on a Major League roster.

The season is about to become a lot worse when we start playing better teams.

[A. Cavatica]

Originally Posted by ZombieRob

That's sad that Konerko isn't in that group.

What do you expect for a 55 year old first baseman who can't hit?

[soxfanreggie]

Originally Posted by Noneck

Sale is the diamond. Everyone wants gold for a turd, it doesnt work that way. You have to give to get.

I never mentioned getting gold. My focus is on saving $$$ to help for the future and getting a few pieces that may develop into MLB talent. Why would you get rid of Sale, a guy who has shown to have #1 talent and is under a great deal for you for prospects unless those prospects were no doubters to make a difference at the MLB level. Guys like Sale and Reed can be built around and we don't have to worry about losing in the next year or two.

[Lip Man 1]

Originally Posted by soxfanreggie

I never mentioned getting gold. My focus is on saving $$$ to help for the future and getting a few pieces that may develop into MLB talent. Why would you get rid of Sale, a guy who has shown to have #1 talent and is under a great deal for you for prospects unless those prospects were no doubters to make a difference at the MLB level. Guys like Sale and Reed can be built around and we don't have to worry about losing in the next year or two.

Reggie:

Not saying I agree with Noneck's position but I understand where he is coming from.

Right now things look so ****ed up both at the big league level and in the minor leagues that let's suppose the team is sold this off season a brand new front office is brought in and you are looking at basically a total rebuild.

It's probably going to take four years at least to turn things around (if you're lucky...)

By that time Sale's deal is running out, he's four years older, more milage on the arm. Hell he could be injured.

Noneck is saying (I think) that if the Sox decide to go the rebuilding mode with current ownership or not, by the time they've turned this cesspool around Sale might not be worth much at all. If you are going to go this approach and suck the next four years you may as well trade the few good pieces you actually have to get back two or three good prospects who may actually have a chance to contribute when things start moving forward.

Again not saying that's the way I'd go, but I understand the point. If you can get a king's ransom for Sale and say Reed, you have to at least consider it.

The situation is so bad right now, so devoid of talent no one can be untouchable and all options simply have to be at least considered.

Lip

[Noneck]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

Reggie:

Not saying I agree with Noneck's position but I understand where he is coming from.

Right now things look so ****ed up both at the big league level and in the minor leagues that let's suppose the team is sold this off season a brand new front office is brought in and you are looking at basically a total rebuild.

It's probably going to take four years at least to turn things around (if you're lucky...)

By that time Sale's deal is running out, he's four years older, more milage on the arm. Hell he could be injured.

Noneck is saying (I think) that if the Sox decide to go the rebuilding mode with current ownership or not, by the time they've turned this cesspool around Sale might not be worth much at all. If you are going to go this approach and suck the next four years you may as well trade the few good pieces you actually have to get back two or three good prospects who may actually have a chance to contribute when things start moving forward.

Again not saying that's the way I'd go, but I understand the point. If you can get a king's ransom for Sale and say Reed, you have to at least consider it.

The situation is so bad right now, so devoid of talent no one can be untouchable and all options simply have to be at least considered.

Lip

Yes Lip, thats what I meant and also Sale makes money now. I see the Sox going on the total cheap if they rebuild, he wont bring fans to the park so having a ace thats making decent money on a 70 win team, for 4-5 years wont make sense to the Sox.

[October26]

I so wanted the Sox to win this game on Father's Day for my father and all of the wonderful dads who are Sox fans (many of whom frequently visit and post on this site). It was not to be.

I did not get to watch this game as the nursing home where my father is currently residing at does not have CSN, which is probably a good thing.

I spent a beautiful day with my father talking about everything from life, love, marriage, the challenges of working and raising children, coming to America and even a little conversation about the Sox.

I am thankful for the gift of time with my dad. And still hoping against all hope that we get to see some good games from the Sox this Summer.

[Foulke You]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

Reggie:

It's probably going to take four years at least to turn things around (if you're lucky...)

Lip

Things are bad right now but I disagree with this statement. People said similar things after dreadful seasons in 2007 and 2011 and in both cases, the Sox found themselves in contention the following season. During all of this dreadful run, the Sox continue to get solid starting pitching which is normally the hardest thing to build. This is why I think this team could definitely contend in 2014 with a re-tooling of the starting 9 and not a complete tear-down. This year's Red Sox team did a good job of re-tooling and turned a 69 win team into a contender the following year.

Just look at all the one run games the Sox have lost this year due to lack of offensive production. Replacement level players in many cases (LF, Catcher, 1B) would likely have made those 1 run losses into wins. If Hahn can make a few good moves at the deadline as well as in the offseason leading up to 2014 and keep most of the starting pitching staff intact, I think the Sox could contend next year.

[Lip Man 1]

Foulke:

With respect...again I understand your position but I'd make the case that when things have gotten so bad that the organization can't even put back to back winning seasons together since 2005-2006 you've got a deep, deep problem.

Sure the Sox rebounded in 2008 and 2010...what happened again in 2009 and 2011?

CONSISTENCY is the key, consistency in "contending"...not just in what is usually a crappy division but having a legit shot at the American League pennant should be the goal (Kittle has talked about this many times as I remember...)

You simply can't "rebuild" and "contend" at the same time, it just doesn't work. I think the Sox have shown it doesn't work. You can't simply paste over the cracks and hope. That is only a temporary solution.

Honestly I don't care what approach they choose but "it's time" to pick a lane and stay there and give whatever avenue you take a chance to really work over a period of time.

If they want to take the Tampa approach and build through the draft...fine.

If they want to take the Yankee / Angel / Rangers / Red Sox approach and buy every good free agent out there...fine.

Just stop screwing around trying to do both.

But the other factor whichever way the Sox choose to go is this, you have to have sharp people making the decisions and putting areas in action.

Do the Sox have those folks right now at the minor league and major league levels?

Many would say no because in this organization, loyalty is apparently worth more than winning.

That's hard for me to say by the way, some of those folks are good friends of mine but the bottom line is that the record on the field shows something is badly wrong and has been wrong overall for the last six years.

Eventually like my late father used to say, "it's time to **** or get off the pot..."

Lip

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

You simply can't "rebuild" and "contend" at the same time, it just doesn't work. I think the Sox have shown it doesn't work. You can't simply paste over the cracks and hope. That is only a temporary solution.

Honestly I don't care what approach they choose but "it's time" to pick a lane and stay there and give whatever avenue you take a chance to really work over a period of time.

If they want to take the Tampa approach and build through the draft...fine.

If they want to take the Yankee / Angel / Rangers / Red Sox approach and buy every good free agent out there...fine.

Just stop screwing around trying to do both.

LOL, what, the Giants, winners of 2 of the last 3 World Series have shown that teams can easily successfully build both internally and externally. In fact, just glossing at the standings, I would bet that every top team right now is some kind of mashup between good draft picks and good FA signings. To think it can be done all within one way is just perposterous.