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  #16  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:33 PM
Bobby Thigpen Bobby Thigpen is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
I don't know how you can claim he has regressed four straight years when his seasons in 2010 and 2011 were amongst the best years of his career. He's regressed only since the second half of last season when he was dealing with the wrist issue. 2010-2012 he put a higher OPS each season than 2007-2009.

That said, he looks bad, really bad. Hopefully some hot weather will loosen him up and allow him to get back on top of the fastball.
Look, don't ask blandman to back up his claims. He just knows they're right.
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:39 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
I don't know how you can claim he has regressed four straight years when his seasons in 2010 and 2011 were amongst the best years of his career. He's regressed only since the second half of last season when he was dealing with the wrist issue. 2010-2012 he put a higher OPS each season than 2007-2009.

That said, he looks bad, really bad. Hopefully some hot weather will loosen him up and allow him to get back on top of the fastball.
His OPS over the last four years has been lower in each subsequent season. That is, by definition, regression.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Thigpen View Post
Look, don't ask blandman to back up his claims. He just knows they're right.


From the last time we had this argument and I provided evidence. http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/v...92#post3048192

Last edited by blandman; 05-14-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-14-2013, 06:32 PM
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Mark Gonzales
Konerko said RV gave him heads up last nite that he could sit tonight, said Torre did it to RV with Yankees. PK said physically he's fine.

Dan Hayes

Konerko took part in team's extra fielding practice at 2. Will hit in cage and take BP. Said extra work was good.
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  #19  
Old 05-14-2013, 07:29 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I thought he was done before the season.
Why am I not surprised?

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Of course most people did. He's regressed three straight years (four if you count this year).
I don't know that that's the case.
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  #20  
Old 05-14-2013, 07:31 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
His OPS over the last four years has been lower in each subsequent season. That is, by definition, regression.
His decline in a single category is evidence of regression?
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  #21  
Old 05-14-2013, 08:11 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by RKMeibalane View Post
His decline in a single category is evidence of regression?
OPS is an analysis figure, not a counting stat. Don't knock it like I based it on something silly like saying his homers went down. It's an analysis of power and ability to get on base, and it's the number one projection analytic when it comes to hitters. When you talk about hitters regressing, OPS is what you look at.
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  #22  
Old 05-14-2013, 09:48 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
OPS is an analysis figure, not a counting stat. Don't knock it like I based it on something silly like saying his homers went down. It's an analysis of power and ability to get on base, and it's the number one projection analytic when it comes to hitters. When you talk about hitters regressing, OPS is what you look at.
Konerko's OPS did regress from the career high that he set in 2010, to call it a regression though is misusing the phrase "regression," because it ignores the fact that in 2011 his OPS was still higher than his OPS in 2009, 2008, and 2007; it was also the fourth highest OPS of his career and only three points behind his OPS in 2005. This claim of regression also discounts the fact that prior to having his wrist surgery in 2012 Konerko posted an OPS of .932 in the first half. The regression for Paul Konerko began when he had that wrist "procedure" in early June of last year. Prior to then he was putting up an OPS of .900 which would be .50 points higher than his career OPS. You are also neglecting to mention that Konerko's batting average in 2010, 2011 and 2012 were some of the highest averages he has posted.
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  #23  
Old 05-14-2013, 10:43 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
Konerko's OPS did regress from the career high that he set in 2010, to call it a regression though is misusing the phrase "regression," because it ignores the fact that in 2011 his OPS was still higher than his OPS in 2009, 2008, and 2007; it was also the fourth highest OPS of his career and only three points behind his OPS in 2005. This claim of regression also discounts the fact that prior to having his wrist surgery in 2012 Konerko posted an OPS of .932 in the first half. The regression for Paul Konerko began when he had that wrist "procedure" in early June of last year. Prior to then he was putting up an OPS of .900 which would be .50 points higher than his career OPS. You are also neglecting to mention that Konerko's batting average in 2010, 2011 and 2012 were some of the highest averages he has posted.
Bingo. Even Paul's 2012 season outperformed his pre-MVP caliber career numbers.
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  #24  
Old 05-15-2013, 01:57 AM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
His OPS over the last four years has been lower in each subsequent season. That is, by definition, regression.





From the last time we had this argument and I provided evidence. http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/v...92#post3048192

Over the last four years? So 2012, 2011, 2010, and 2009? I'm assuming you aren't possibly counting 6 weeks worth of play as a full seasons worth of data?

I don't think think anyone who isn't practicing an extreme misuse of the English language can say that Paul decreased his OPS over the past four years vs the previous season. He increased his OPS in 2009 and again in 2010. I have no idea how a decrease in 2011 and 2012 (and six weeks in 2013) can be count as four years of regression by any stretch of the imagination.

He has decreased his OPS over the past two seasons, and I think there is no question whatsoever that he is on his very last legs, but let's not forgot that this is a man who drove us crazy with his streaks for the first 13 years of his career. Let's not pretend that his last two years weren't among the better seasons of his very successful career. Let's not forget that this is a man who used to be known for not showing up until May.
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  #25  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:01 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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So...because four years ago, at his peak of his prime, Konerko posted his career high in OPS, we should ignore the fact that he's been falling off a cliff precipitously since? That's counter-intuitive.

It doesn't matter that he peaked four years ago. It matters that he's following a normal projection of regression for someone his age. Because that means, sadly, he likely doesn't have anything left.
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  #26  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:50 AM
delben91 delben91 is offline
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Maybe I can't count, but the OPS stats on Paul's MLB player page read as follows...

2008: .783
2009: .842
2010: .977
2011: .906
2012: .857
2013: .623

So if he peaked 4 years ago, that would be 2009? Seems to me 2010 was the peak but so be it.

Regardless, the guy is up there in years and the drop off was going to come at some point. Maybe this is it, maybe it's just a cold streak. I'm certainly not smart enough to say definitively either way.
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  #27  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:28 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by delben91 View Post
Maybe I can't count, but the OPS stats on Paul's MLB player page read as follows...

2008: .783
2009: .842
2010: .977
2011: .906
2012: .857
2013: .623

So if he peaked 4 years ago, that would be 2009? Seems to me 2010 was the peak but so be it.

Regardless, the guy is up there in years and the drop off was going to come at some point. Maybe this is it, maybe it's just a cold streak. I'm certainly not smart enough to say definitively either way.
I'm counting this year as the fourth year, maybe I should clarify.

It's irrelevant anyhow. It's fairly obvious Konerko is regressing, no matter what metric you use.
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  #28  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:11 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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Unless I'm misreading this situation, the White Sox are telling Konerko his days are numbered here. They must have a very low opinion of his baseball skills. I realize he hasn't been hitting so far this year but still to be sitting on the bench 2 games in a row and seeing Adam Done starting in place of Paulie has to be demeaning to Konerko. After all he's sitting on the bench and Done is playing and hitting all of .137. If they're going to continue benching him they might as well release him. This looks like its going to be a bad ending to Konerkos career on the Southside of Chicago. I don't know how Ventura can possibly bench Konerko and keep Done in the lineup. I've said it before on one of my earlier posts, Adam Done is the worse all around player the White Sox have had in my lifetime. His 3 years with the White Sox he has a BA of .178 which is the worse for any cleanup hitter in modern day (post World War 2) baseball history. And yet Konerko is being benched and a bum like Adam Done is still playing.
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  #29  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:13 AM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
Unless I'm misreading this situation, the White Sox are telling Konerko his days are numbered here. They must have a very low opinion of his baseball skills. I realize he hasn't been hitting so far this year but still to be sitting on the bench 2 games in a row and seeing Adam Done starting in place of Paulie has to be demeaning to Konerko. After all he's sitting on the bench and Done is playing and hitting all of .137. If they're going to continue benching him they might as well release him. This looks like its going to be a bad ending to Konerkos career on the Southside of Chicago. I don't know how Ventura can possibly bench Konerko and keep Done in the lineup. I've said it before on one of my earlier posts, Adam Done is the worse all around player the White Sox have had in my lifetime. His 3 years with the White Sox he has a BA of .178 which is the worse for any cleanup hitter in modern day (post World War 2) baseball history. And yet Konerko is being benched and a bum like Adam Done is still playing.

Ohh...now I get it...because you don't like Adam Dunn...
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  #30  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:32 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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I actually like Adam Dunn. I met him once and he really seems like a nice guy. He's friendly and personable. Virtually every one of his teammates will never say a bad thing about him. He is definitely a people person. The problem is he is absolutely terrible as a major league baseball player. He has no business being on a major league roster and he has less business starting over Paul Konerko. Once Dunn is done with the White Sox, I actually wish him the best of luck. I just hope he's gone sooner rather than later. Liking someone has really nothing to do with anything when it comes to playing baseball in the majors. Two of the best hitters the White Sox have had in my lifetime were Dick Allen and Albert Belle. I met both of them and believe me they were both difficult to like. I would rather have those two on the White Sox rather than a nice guy like Dunn who is hitting .137. Performance is what counts in the major leagues. If you doubt what I say, it was announced today that the Phillies signed Carlos Zambrano to a contract. You will probably meet a small group of Zambranos teammates who actually liked him. I was told that when he was with the Cubs, most oh his teammates totally stayed away him from on their road trips. They thought he was nuts. Still the Cubs kept him around for years because he performed quite well for the Cubs. If he pitches well for the Phillies they will keep him for as long as he gets people out. Dunn hasn't played well for 3 years now for the White Sox. Now that he is hitting a robust .137 his days playing for the White Sox should be over.

Last edited by Golden Sox; 05-15-2013 at 11:44 AM.
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