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  #16  
Old 04-10-2013, 11:35 PM
Soxman219 Soxman219 is offline
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I said this at the start of the season. The Sox need to score with runners in scoring position, something they couldn't do last year and it cost them the division. If they plan to do anything this year, they have to score!
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  #17  
Old 04-10-2013, 11:40 PM
Zakath Zakath is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxGal85 View Post
The Nationals are a good team. Floyd was good first time through the order, but that's not enough. I just hope the Sox can find a way to win tomorrow.
Unless his curve ball is really really on, his other stuff isn't good enough to get him through the order 3 times without getting hit.

The Nationals are a very good team with hitters up and down the lineup. Their rotation isn't quite as good as the Giants, however, who can throw 5 really good arms at you. I was hoping to steal one in this series, so we have to take advantage of Haren tomorrow and hope Axelrod can give us 6 good innings.
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  #18  
Old 04-11-2013, 08:58 AM
chisox12 chisox12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post

Pretty good story talking about Floyd in his six years with the Sox, the entire gamut was on display tonight:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,1505728.story

I was talking with a friend tonight about Floyd and I thought the response was pretty spot on, "he'll break your heart..."

Lip


Yep. That start pretty much sums up Floyd's White Sox career. I think I'm just going to stop watching the games that he starts....drives me ****ing nuts.
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  #19  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:05 AM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakath View Post
Unless his curve ball is really really on, his other stuff isn't good enough to get him through the order 3 times without getting hit.

The Nationals are a very good team with hitters up and down the lineup. Their rotation isn't quite as good as the Giants, however, who can throw 5 really good arms at you. I was hoping to steal one in this series, so we have to take advantage of Haren tomorrow and hope Axelrod can give us 6 good innings.
Good post. Floyd defnitely lives and dies with that curve ball. You could tell Floyd didn't have any confidence in it last night because he barely was throwing it in the middle innings.

I am impressed with the balance the Nats have in their lineup. Lots of hitters that go deep in counts and lots of line drive hitters. I realize it is a small sample size but if their pitching holds up, they will be in the thick of the NL playoff race. I feel like the Sox will chase Haren early tonight but my fear is that Axelrod's sub par stuff might get taken advantage of by this Nats offense. I still think Santiago was the better choice for the rotation.
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  #20  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:20 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Floyd has been in the league a while now so he has history. He will give you innings, be a .500 pitcher w an ERA around 4.25. He would be a good 4-5 starter if the Sox can get results from the starters ahead of him. Unfortunately the Sox have struggled to get better pitchers so he can be a 4-5. Luckily the arrival of Sale gives them 1 and hopefully Peavy is 2.
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  #21  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:52 AM
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asindc asindc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Two thoughts...

Gavin Floyd is a mediocre (at best) pitcher.

The Sox offense doesn't remind you of the 27 Yankees or the 75 Reds does it?

I suspect Kittle is pretty close to the truth. This club is going to have trouble scoring runs. To many strikeouts, to many guys left on base (when they do get on base...)

It is what it is.

Lip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Sox are now 6 for 45 with RISP this season.

Pretty good story talking about Floyd in his six years with the Sox, the entire gamut was on display tonight:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,1505728.story

I was talking with a friend tonight about Floyd and I thought the response was pretty spot on, "he'll break your heart..."

Lip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakath View Post
Unless his curve ball is really really on, his other stuff isn't good enough to get him through the order 3 times without getting hit.

The Nationals are a very good team with hitters up and down the lineup. Their rotation isn't quite as good as the Giants, however, who can throw 5 really good arms at you. I was hoping to steal one in this series, so we have to take advantage of Haren tomorrow and hope Axelrod can give us 6 good innings.
I was at the game last night (and the night before). Being at the game gives me a different perspective than watching at home. When Floyd started getting into trouble, I just resigned myself to a big inning for the Nats. Folks, we have already seen the high water mark for Floyd. It is quite apparent that he will never get over his biggest weakness, which is a lack of poise and savvy when things get tough. A Nats fan asked me about him after the game. I told him Floyd is one of the top 25 pitchers in the game when things are going well, but near the bottom when things are not. He is who he is. It's folly to expect something more at this point.
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  #22  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:20 AM
amsteel amsteel is offline
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I think everyone figured they'd lose two of three anyway. Just don't get swept.

The Sox have allowed 12 runs in innings 1-4 and 7-9. They have allowed 18 in the 5th and 6th.

Not sure exactly what the means, but it looks like our starters are getting figured out and/or RV needs to shorten the lease a little.
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  #23  
Old 04-11-2013, 12:27 PM
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FielderJones FielderJones is offline
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Originally Posted by amsteel View Post
Not sure exactly what the means, but it looks like our starters are getting figured out and/or RV needs to shorten the lease a little.
Make it a nine-month instead of the standard twelve-month?

I think the Sox will have a tough year if the bullpen has to cover four innings per game. Robin pretty much has to let his starters try to get into the seventh. Not every team has the talent level of the Nationals.
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  #24  
Old 04-11-2013, 02:16 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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What in the hell was the philosophy when putting this team together?

-We will keep Floyd, Peavy and Thornton around even though they've been the core of teams that have failed to make the playoffs the last 4 years

-Then we will back it up with zero improvements on offense

-No need to address the lack of depth that has hurt us the past couple of years.

This is awful. It doesn't matter that we are only 8 games in because we have seen this same thing for the last several years. Blow it up and rebuild already and don't waste another season.
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  #25  
Old 04-11-2013, 02:31 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
What in the hell was the philosophy when putting this team together?

-We will keep Floyd, Peavy and Thornton around even though they've been the core of teams that have failed to make the playoffs the last 4 years

-Then we will back it up with zero improvements on offense

-No need to address the lack of depth that has hurt us the past couple of years.

This is awful. It doesn't matter that we are only 8 games in because we have seen this same thing for the last several years. Blow it up and rebuild already and don't waste another season.
A horrible farm system from the KW era + (IMHO) the disastrous signing of Adam Dunn- sooooooo much money for 4 years for a guy that is now hitting .184 over the 2+ seasons he's been with the White Sox- makes it very hard to re-tool.
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  #26  
Old 04-11-2013, 03:23 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
What in the hell was the philosophy when putting this team together?

-We will keep Floyd, Peavy and Thornton around even though they've been the core of teams that have failed to make the playoffs the last 4 years

-Then we will back it up with zero improvements on offense

-No need to address the lack of depth that has hurt us the past couple of years.

This is awful. It doesn't matter that we are only 8 games in because we have seen this same thing for the last several years. Blow it up and rebuild already and don't waste another season.
Peavy had a great season last year.
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  #27  
Old 04-11-2013, 03:43 PM
amsteel amsteel is offline
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Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
This is awful. It doesn't matter that we are only 8 games in because we have seen this same thing for the last several years. Blow it up and rebuild already and don't waste another season.
I get the feeling that there is a definite lack of excitement around this team this year. It's basically the same cast with minimal changes that was part of the 7th best team in the league last year; meanwhile the Tigers, our closest competitor, continues to spend money, and presumptively get better.

I realize it's only eight games into the season, but I don't sense any difference in the performance or character of this team. I feel like I've watched games 163-170 of the 2012 season.
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  #28  
Old 04-11-2013, 05:12 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Shingo:

Good question...the overall approach or philosophy has been a point of discussion around here for years.

I honestly don't know other than maybe "rebuilding while contending" which usually doesn't work very well.

I'm of the mind you either do one or the other, not both at the same time.

Lip
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  #29  
Old 04-11-2013, 05:52 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Shingo:

Good question...the overall approach or philosophy has been a point of discussion around here for years.

I honestly don't know other than maybe "rebuilding while contending" which usually doesn't work very well.

I'm of the mind you either do one or the other, not both at the same time.

Lip
The Atlanta Braves of the 1990s probably came the closest to the "rebuild to reload" approach that the White Sox have failed with. They were able to acquire players via free-agency (Greg Maddux) or trade (Fred McGriff & Kenny Lofton), but also drafted well (Steve Avery, David Justice, Chipper Jones, Javy Lopez, Ryan Klesko), so it was never difficult for them to field a competitive team, even as they worked to overhaul the roster to unload veterans who were no longer producing (Sid Bream, Otis Nixon, Terry Pendleton).

The Braves also understood that one must build a team by focusing on pitching and defense, rather than trying to win via the home run. Their pitching staff was the envy of baseball, as it contained two legitimate number-one starters (Maddux and Tom Glavine), a strong number-two starter on most teams (John Smoltz), and solid veterans at the back end (Kent Mercker and Pete Smith), along with the aforementioned Avery. Their bullpen was also strong (Mike Stanton, Greg McMichael, Kerry Lightenberg, John Rocker).

The White Sox, with the exception of 2005, have been a team that's relied heavily on trying to outhit opponents, even going back to the latter half of the Jerry Manuel years, as those teams looked more like a weekend softball team than a complete Major League roster, and it showed in their play. Granted, I always believed that those teams significantly underachieved, largely due to Manuel's misuse of the bullpen and constant tinkering with the batting order, something that he should have left alone. A seven-year-old would have understood that the lineup should have been as follows, and left as is until there was sufficient reason to change it:

2B- Roberto Alomar
LF- Carlos Lee
DH- Frank Thomas
RF- Magglio Ordonez
CF- Carl Everett
1B- Paul Konerko
SS- Jose Valentin
3B- Joe Crede
C- Miguel Olivo

The problem with the "home run or nothing" approach is that most teams that live by this philosophy lack the plate discipline and the understanding of the strike zone needed to hit Major League pitching consistently. The Sox of the Manuel years were notorious for smacking around Roger Clemens and David Wells, only to throw up a "zero spot" against Billy Chapel a week later. Manuel seemed to believe that this phenomenon had nothing to do with him, as I recall his criticizing the entire team for "keeping guys in the league" by virtue of allowing them a quality start. I would actually be interested to know the number of starting pitchers who managed to limit the Sox to three runs or fewer while making either their Major League debut or their first start with a new team, between 2001 and 2003, when this scenario seemed to happen two or three times each month, if not more.
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